The credit scores aren’t even government scores, just private companies that decided to collect everyone’s information and the government won’t do anything about it ‘because of the economy’.
Well the companies control the government, so…
These are not privately owned companies, they are public corporations.
Take American express for example: “American Express Co is a public company headquartered in New York…” A public company, not a private one.
You would think if something was owned by a private individual or a private organization, we could point to one person or entity that owns and controls it. But, if you look at the ownership of any major American credit card corporation, you will see that the ownership is held by a collective of entities. You might say that ownership is far more held in common than privately:
American Express Company: “Largest shareholders include Berkshire Hathaway Inc, Vanguard Group Inc, BlackRock Inc., State Street Corp, Wellington Management Group Llp, Jpmorgan Chase & Co, VTSMX - Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Investor Shares, VFINX - Vanguard 500 Index Fund Investor Shares, Morgan Stanley, and Bank Of America Corp…”
Bank of America: “Bank Of America Corp’s top holdings are Microsoft Corporation (US:MSFT) , Invesco Capital Management LLC - Invesco QQQ Trust Series 1 (US:QQQ) , Apple Inc (US:AAPL) , SSgA Active Trust - SPDR S&P 500 ETF Trust (US:SPY) , and SSgA Active Trust - SPDR S&P 500 ETF Trust (US:SPY)…”
Capital One: “Capital One Financial Corps top holdings are BlackRock Institutional Trust Company N.A. - iShares MSCI USA Min Vol Factor ETF (US:USMV) , Goldman Sachs ETF Trust - Goldman Sachs ActiveBeta International Equity ETF (US:GSIE) , BlackRock Institutional Trust Company N.A. - iShares MSCI USA Quality Factor ETF (US:QUAL) , Vanguard Group, Inc. - Vanguard Tax-Exempt Bond ETF (US:VTEB) , and BlackRock Institutional Trust Company N.A.”
I think its safe to say the natural oppoisite of private ownership is public ownership. So, if ownership and control is held in common, then you can’t call it private ownership. You may notice that Blackrock is a partial and large shareholder to these companies. Well, Blackrock can’t be privately owned either, considering it has no private owner, only shareholders, and all BLK shares have voting rights, meaning that shareholders of BlackRock have a say in the company’s affairs in line with the proportion of ownership they hold in the firm.
I think it was clear that I meant they were not part of the government.
You called them private companies, and I’m disputing that.
This distinction is important, because the properties that make it non-private (being owned by a public collective) also happen to make people particularly vulnerable to spyware and data collection. That which is owned by a public corporation is owned by its shareholders collectively. Major shareholders can therefor lobby corporations to divulge data that is technically legally theirs. When you consider how many corporations Black Rock and Vanguard are invested in, there isn’t much that you can touch without generating some meta-data level evidence of what you’re doing, where, and when that they won’t have access to.
If things were truly privately controlled, nobody would be able to lobby a bank to divulge information about its clients.
K
You got owned dude
You’re disputing something other than what they said, bro. “It sounded like you said this” is different from “you said this”. Now talk about what they did say. Are they part of the government? No? Then you don’t disagree and there’s nothing to dispute. Could they have phrased it better? Of course.
just private companies that decided to collect everyone’s information
This is what he said. He called them private. No, it didn’t sound like he called them private, he did call them private. It’s a distinction I consider important, so I outlined why. You’re just wrong in your characterization of what happened, straight up.
Don’t pretend he didn’t call them private. And don’t pretend it isn’t super common to think of corporations as private entities. They’re not, and this mischaracterization affects how people think. It’s not good to base your worldview on lies.
The credit scores aren’t even government scores
Their intent was quite clear, don’t try to muddy the waters.
You’re the one muddying the waters, intent is not the only thing that matters. He directly said private, and that has implications that make his comment come off as frankly detached from reality.
His comment directly suggests that the government is not involved with these credit scores, which is incorrect since the white house did an executive order enforcing DEI in the federal workforce.
His comment suggests that these companies are free from the influence of the state, which is wrong because the government has full authority to and actively incentivizes ESG credit scores.
His comment suggests that independent private industry is strong-arming the government, when the reality is these very same scores they blame on private business are actively snuffing out non-corporate business, which will only make the problem worse
It also prevents credit cards
That’s the joke
What if someone is starting off getting their first credit card as a teen? Wouldn’t the credit score be zero?
There’s a difference between bad credit and no credit. Some places refuse both, but you can find places that will deal with no credit.
Basically, but they call it a thin file (aka no credit history). If you don’t have someone to cosign, they’ll start you off with a secure card, where you pony up a couple hundred bucks and borrow against yourself until you establish good history.
Discover Student will typically give you an unsecured line for your first card.
In my case, it was with the bank I already had a checking account with and the credit limit was like $500. They normally start you off with a super low limit and a high interest rate.
No teenager should be given a credit card under any circumstances. That’s a great way to find yourself bankrupt.
Not when teens have access to finance 101 classes in high school. It was an elective in my HS and you better believe I took it. I learned how to do my taxes, balance a budget. It was great. I wish this was a hard requirement for all HS students.
But I will agree, teenagers are pretty stupid. but at least I was a knowledgeable stupid teenager.
I got my credit card as a teen and never used it like a dumbass. Teaching people about money goes a long way.
The government doesn’t want you to know this, but identities are free. You can just take them. I have 458 identities.
Are you my mom?
Americans getting credit cards so young is so foreign to me. Here you only get a credit card either for business reasons or if you travel internationally where the European standards for debit cards don’t apply
I was advised by my family, and the bank when I was 16 to get a Credit Card so I could build my credit score. I didn’t really have any good financial awareness and they set me at a $2000 limit. Needless to say that was maxed almost immediately and took years of developing discipline to get under control. I still struggle with CCs now and then… They’re too easy to come by and too hard to break free of
Where I’m from almost no one under 25 gets a credit card, because most non-online/prepaid/crypto credit cards have an age or income limit.
Everyone over the age of 12 has a debit card here. I think it promotes healthy spending knowing you have a set limit and immediately see the amount of money change. Overdrafts are also not enabled by default and require an extra package.
Venmo/Cashapp etc are also uncommon here.
Oh yeah, you do need a credit card for some hotels here. So that’s a reason I guess?
There are enough that accept upfront payments in cash when you check in.
Credit cards have much better fraud protection then debit
The fraud prevention page for my mastercard debit card is the same page as the credit card page.
However, what I really recommend is you can get travel cards that you load with minimal money and are entirely disposable. You don’t need to only use them overseas. I have used them for online payments and in person payments and they’re disposable. That is I can get two more unique cards with unique numbers at any time. Minimising my personal risk since they can’t be used as ID and I limit the money on the card to just what’s needed. If it’s stolen skimmed or tried to be used fraudulently I might at most lose 50 dollars but I also probably know who within a margin of error skimmed it since I rotate them with new cards every so often.
I’m also in a place where losing 50 Australian dollars won’t financially bankrupt me if it was stolen. Because I’m pretty sure there is lots less fraud protection on those travel cards.
Anyway there’s alternatives for those who can’t or morally object to credit cards. Like me. Mine is I’m bad with money, I morally don’t trust myself since I went into 10k debt at 18.
If there’s fraud on a credit card, the bank fights to get their money back. If it’s fraud on a debit card, you fight for your money. Also if there’s fraud on your debit, that’s money out of your bank account that immediately affects you. With credit, it doesn’t at all. Debit has much weaker liability then credit, and also a time limit where you just lose all money if it’s not reported right away, with no limit to how much you can lose if you don’t get it back in time (usually 60 days). That trust that you won’t go in debt with credit cards is essentially why the credit system exists, to measure that. There’s nothing that has to do with morals, it’s just a payment method.
The bank is fighting for their money because as long as you report it in time they are legally required to refund all but a small amount. The refund for the fraudulent charges has nothing to do with the banks ability to get their money back.
What I was just advocating for, is taking ownership and control of the risk. If it’s your own entire bank account perhaps with a few thousand dollars, that risk is thousands of dollars. By segmenting that you can reduce it to dozens of dollars in which case, no matter the coin flip of bank fraud and money return, you’re never putting your eggs all in one basket.
Risk management is more than good insurance.
I don’t think you understood what my comment said. Fraud is prevented with credit cards, and that risk isn’t there. It’s smarter to use credit over debit, any bank will tell you that.
Explain the risk of fraud with a travel card.
Feel free to keep using a travel card
Also like I said witt Debit, if there’s fraud then you’re out of that money until it’s returned. With credit, you will still be able to keep using it instead of potentially overdrafting/denied on a debit card. Or in the case of a prepaid travel card, you’d just run out, which would especially screw you over while traveling if that’s your only method of payment. On top of that, it’s easier to get scammed as a foreigner.
If you’re still interested in learning, search engines are your friend. I am not a financial advisor.
That’s kind of irrelevant when you have modern tech like mobile payments to safeguard you. But yeah, if you’re still using magnetic stripes, you’re kinda fucked.
That’s not how fraud protection works lol, and it doesn’t have to do with the physical card
Yeah, tell me more about it, lol.
Reasons to get a credit card in 2019 -
To hire a car
Reasons to get a credit card in 2023 -
?
Totally alien concept to me
You put normal monthly expenses on the credit card, then you immediately pay it off. Do this for a while and build your credit score. Use your higher credit score to get approved for loans/mortgages/bigger credit.
All credit is is a way to buy something expensive that you can’t afford right now. Figure out what you want to buy, then build the necessary credit to be approved for the big purchase.
Heh, no credit agencies in my country, no credit score.
When you pay with credit card it’s bank’s money. When paying with debit it’s yours.
I pay everything on the internet with credit card. It’s safer.
I use mine for cash back. I’ve been watching this finance channel on YouTube and the amount of Americans with thousands and thousands of credit card debt at sometimes over 30% interest is fucking insane.
Maertro crowd isn’t so lucky. And rental companies don’t advertise this.
Not having a credit card is giving up free money in cash back and rewards. Just be disciplined and it’s a net positive in every way, including security
It’s not free money if I can’t withdraw it
Of course you can if it is a cash back.
I literally can withdrawal it
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I kinda doubt the thieves are very picky.
350 is basically “don’t loan this dork money under any circumstance.”
You have to work to get a 350. I’ve been selling cars a long time and seen only a couple go that low. We always say on scores like that we couldn’t get financed on a dollar with 4 quarters down.
So like, hypothetically, how much would one have to steal to get a 350… or being a Loch Ness Monster would be enough?
Scorched earth credit score strategy
Yeah steal my identity. Enjoy the student loan debt, no takebacks!
They will increase your debt though
I just said no takebacks. If someone steals my identity, they have to keep it and whatever additional debt they rack up.
I truly feel credit cards are a tax on the poor.
Sure you can try to keep up on payments, one day you may find out you cannot.
Don’t live outside your means. Eventually, one has to be accountable over their own finances.
I don’t. There’s not many more shady industries than the credit card industry. You have to sign up on a website to NOT get offers.
Every store you go to tries to sell you one these days.
Comically high interest rates.
It’s not something I want to even dignify, because frankly it’s insulting.
All of those are things that normal, educated, and well-adjusted people can account for and avoid when it goes against their self-interest. If you’re dumb enough to sign up for a J. Crew credit card because the guy at the counter said you’d get 10% off, you deserve to get taxed
I’m stating it’s not an ethical practice.
Is the worst one could get ? What is the scale ?
300-800. Usually.
I can confirm this is false.
You can somehow still get $4k limit cards with absolute dog ahit credit.
On the other side if you don’t find out about it for 10 years it’s literally like it never happened.
I’m in my thirties and I’ve never owned a credit card. Fuck paying interest.
People always told me I need to get one so I can have a good credit rating. For what? So I can pay more interest for a mortgage on a house I’ll never buy?
Stupid.
Open a savings account and have someone else pay YOU interest.
You only need to pay interest if you don’t make your monthly payments. I put gas and some groceries on my card and zero it out every month. By the time I graduated from university I had a credit score of about 775 which is pretty good for a kid who grew up in a <$20,000/yr household with no real financial education or help.
For what? So I can pay more interest for a mortgage on a house I’ll never buy?
This is a terrible way to look at credit. You’ll definitely be paying more interest with no credit score, if you can even get a loan (you won’t). You’re pretty much guaranteeing your failure like this.
Open a savings account and have someone else pay YOU interest.
Yeah lmao that 0.3% really pays out big, huh? Most credit cards offer anywhere between 1-10% cash back.
you only pay interest if you miss your payments deadline. I get 2% cash back on every single purchase i make with cc - Last month I got over $50 back.
Meanwhile my savings account I opened with 4% interest and over a grand invested gave me a whopping $5 in the past month.
You do know where that cash back is coming from, right? Everything you buy has credit card fees baked into the price. The business pays anywhere from 1-5% on every transaction to accept your payment, and a small percent of that is returned to you as “cash back” rewards. Its why I’ve switched back to using cash and any coins I get as change go into a jar. That earns much more than %10 “cash back”, and some shops even make the customers pay the CC fee here in aus so I get a small “discount” too.
Yes I do know where that cash back is coming from, but thanks for mansplaining it anyway. Most shops here in the US will charge the same for cash or credit, meaning all I’m doing by counting out paper money and carrying coins is inconveniencing myself.
Saving the change you get is nothing compared to even 1% cashback… because you get cashback and the change…
%10 “cash back”
You won’t find a credit card that offers more than 6%. Also, the percent comes after the number.
People always told me I need to get one so I can have a good credit rating. For what? So I can pay more interest for a mortgage on a house I’ll never buy?
Credit gives you options. Furnace goes out way sooner than anticipated and you only have $5k in the bank? Take out a loan for the remaining $3-5k to get it done now. Unexpected car repair and you only have $500 after rent in the bank? Whip out the credit card and put the other $500-1000 on there and throw extra money at it until it’s paid off. Yes you’ll pay some interest, but you’ll have a working car, or a working furnace, or whatever other calamity you find yourself facing.
But the biggest thing credit does it lets you buy property much much sooner in life. Property has a wierd habit of gaining value much faster than it should, the payment stays the same for the entire term of the loan, plus with a mortgage every payment buys you slightly more ownership of the property unlike a rent payment which is just money leaving your bank account every month for nothing other than the privilege of the roof over your head for the following month.
For a real world example, I bought my house a couple of years ago for ~120k. I live in a small town so I figured it wouldn’t gain anything other than holding it’s value through inflation. My monthly payment is ~800ish and similar places were renting for ~1k/month. Well thanks to the hyperinflation the last couple of years, my house is now worth closer to 180k and rents are up to $1200-1500/mo for a similar place to the one I own, but I still pay $800/mo for my house. That’s what credit gets you in the long term. It gets you stability and options for when the going gets tough
