Leaks confirm low takeup for Windows 11::Time to rethink Windows 10 support cycle then?
No shit…people don’t want more ads and normal features hidden behind 12 new windows/tabs…
Stop fucking with the os and maybe people will want to continue with it .
Yeah, they neglected to mention ads once in that article. I’m pretty sure that’s the reason why no one wants it. I uninstalled it after like 20 minutes upon seeing the ridiculous amount of ads on a fresh install.
Yeah I don’t understand how there’s a whole article of “no one is using it” and the author then states “it’s OK, there’s nothing wrong with it”.
If there’s nothing wrong with it, why is no one using it?
Maybe because 11 is fucking awful. Maybe it’s the ads. Maybe it’s removing fuck tons of features for no apparent reason. Maybe it’s the fucking awful design choices.
But no, the author just says “every decision has haters, people just hate it because it’s different”
“it’s OK, there’s nothing wrong with it”
This person probably uses corporate laptop connected to an Active Directory server which has disabled all the questionable features via group policy. Because that’s what I’m using.
At the risk of being pilloried here….
I’ve been using windows 11 at home and work for over a year now. It’s fine. I’ve not seen ads aside from easily removed links to apps (not even fully installed apps, just links to install them), I don’t see removed functionality. It’s not slow.
It doesn’t make me cum, it’s also not terrible - it’s fine. Just like every windows except ME and early Vista.
I like tabs in explorer and the new task manager. Dark mode notepad is nice. I got used to the start menu because across macOS and windows, I just keyboard shortcut -> completion match search to launch things.
This is the same cycle I’ve seen since 98SE.
There is nothing about windows 11 that’s better than on windows 10. Why would anyone switch voluntarily?
Windows 10 at least had better automatic driver installation, touchscreen and multi-monitor support compared to 7, but came with a shitload of ads built right into it. Windows 11 has even more ads, but what does it give you?
Apk support. Saves you having to get LDplayer or something. Would be great if you’re developing android aps.
But yeah the juice isn’t worth the squeeze in this case. I’m not switching till 10 goes eol and even then there’s a strong chance I’ll fully switch to linux instead.
That’s not even a selling point to an android dev. Android emulators already run, and give a better simulation of a physical device. The only reason it’d be useful for android dev is if you’re actually developing an APK for Windows itself.
Also dev on android code on linux, both use linux so the drivers have performance mostly native, better apk support isn’t selling if the performance is worse
You literally need a third party application to install an APK. At that point you might as well get an android emulator instead of using this spyware.
I did the upgrade so I could have tabbed explorer windows. It was honestly worth it as my work is much more organized.
But even then, it’s still a bit glitchy in a way that should be embarrassing for a company of that size.
You could just buy the program from the windows store and run it in Windows 10 (it’s called Files). Also linux had tabbed file explorers for decades. Glad to see windows finally catch up.
I wish I knew that! I would have stayed with windows 10. Well if I ever need to reformat I’ll switch back.
I’m a long time linux user, but work requires windows or Mac. I’ve tried forever to use Linux for work but there are 2 key pieces of software that do not have a functional alternative on Linux and they don’t run through wine.
I understand your plight. I’m an engineer and I use CAD programs all the time. Very few are available in linux and the ones that are (they are good) are not production level. I’m talking about the FLOSS ones not the close source ones like BricsCAD.
Me too. The tabs are not great and crash often for me.
More ads!
I wouldn’t go that far, but the nagware is exhausting.
AutoHDR is only available in Windows 11. Granted, HDR uptake on PC monitors has been abysmal, it’s a great feature for the few that might use it.
Does it change the screen’s contrast depending on what’s being displayed? Because my work laptop does that. If there’s a white window on screen, contrast is great. But if I minimize that and just have something dark on screen, it slowly reduces the contrast until I can barely read anything.
No, that sounds like adaptive brightness, HDR is more like localized brightness overdrive, particularly in gaming and film.
I think the VM support is better on Windows 11. I tested gaming on both 10 and 11 on my Linux install and 11 performed better. Otherwise, agreed 11 is a downgrade
For linux clients maybe, but definitely not for windows clients. Microsoft practically killed Virtualbox, so we have to use Hyper-V at work now. And unlike virtualbox, it doesn’t let me install my keyboard layout in the VM via MSKLC, which is literally made by microsoft. I had to convert my virtualbox VM where it was installed already and guess what, it works perfectly now.
I also have to disable the keyboard manager in powertoys, another microsoft product, whenever I use the VM because capslock gets stuck on inside the VM if I don’t. That also happens on VMs without my keyboard layout, so it’s a separate issue.
The VM also feels much slower and glitchier than the virtualbox one I used on an older computer.
I’m actually running Windows 11 on QEMU and passing my GPU through to it. Runs VR games perfectly
I haven’t tried VMs via hyper v but WSL and sandbox seems to work a bit better. I don’t know if it’s quantifiablely better but it feels like runs better.
Ah. Maybe that’s the case. I meant I’m running Windows 11 on Linux using QEMU for gaming.
Aren’t GUI support for WSL and multiple tabs in Explorer new in Windows 11?
The only feature I’ve seen that’s worth it is tab support in windows explorer.
HDR support is a big one for me and the reason I switched. APK support is nice. I like the glassy look although that could be achieved on 10 via other means. The search function feels much better to use and it’s nice because I like to use the search function instead of keeping things on my desktop
Search only feels better in 11 because 10s was so bad. Both of them are pretty bad.
Fair, but I feel my point stands. It’s not like spotlight on Mac, but it actually understands what I want now. I use it mostly to launch programs.
And before someone attacks me: I use all 3 major OSes weekly. Hot takes: Mac doesn’t suck and isn’t incompatible for the majority of tasks, but it does end support for things normal people don’t care about, Linux is not that great when it comes to normal quality of life (not power user stuff, it’s awesome for that), and windows makes things easy to access while somehow making everything behind a million menus and across different menus (but still much easier to change than linux)
How much better is the HDR support in Win11? Does it stop your desktop looking washed out when turned on?
Yea that has been fixed. And AutoHDR is pretty much a must have if you have a real HDR monitor. (Not that fake hdr400 B’s they put on all monitors nowadays.)
For me it does. I have two HDR monitors, neither with exceptional hdr. Both look much better with it on, but I personally like the HDR look that some things have. I can tell when something is washed out, but my RGB has also not been properly calibrated. Regular HDR modes in games suck and make it look like I’m staring at the sun or an old photo. Auto HDR makes fire look brighter
Windows 11 finally pushed me over to Linux. I’m not advocating everyone jump ship, because it’s different and takes getting used to. I work in IT so it was a bit more natural for me. I would encourage people maybe trying it on old hardware or just off of a USB to experience it though. Mainly, I wanted to be proficient with Linux before Microsoft made Windows a subscription.
The rumor of Windows going subscription based is so cooked. There’s no way that happens. It’s a shitty rumor based on huge speculation that already has better explanations.
IIRC, it was internal Microsoft file/mail.
It’s currently in win11 dev beta, it’s for tracking your game pass and/or MS 365 sub in the settings menu.
That indicated they were tracking subscriptions…
And everyone jumped to the conclusion that it was to Windows. Because that made a better story than Xbox, Office, or any of the other products Microsoft makes.
Turns out, it wasn’t Windows after all.
I’m not speaking to any specific reports. I just think that some day Microsoft will make it a subscription because that’s where they’ve taken everything. You’ll have to sign up for a new “w365” which will have the office suite and the OS will live in Azure. They will be like Chromebooks, but for Windows. Naturally, there will be tiers for storage and pro apps, a business tier, and a government tier.
I hope it doesn’t come to that, but if it does, I don’t want to be a part of it. On the business side, I think it’s already headed that way. It may not be a subscription for Windows, but it will be thin clients running stuff in the cloud. It’s already possible, I think it will be the mainstream someday.
This has actually been on Microsoft’s internal roadmap for a while now. The bigger goal is to move to a Desktop as a Service model for Windows.
Welcome to the good side 😀 what distro did you settle on?
Admittedly, I did dabble a little in Ubuntu and Mint years ago, so I had some level of familiarity.
I wanted something gaming focused to minimize setup, so I went with Garuda, which is Arch based. I had some issues early on with discord and steam that I thought having a gaming centric distro would have prevented, but it didn’t. If I didn’t have to reinstall things I would probably switch to something more vanilla, but stick with Arch.
The file structure and cli commands have been the biggest hurdle having spent my life in a Windows environment, but it’s coming along. It’s weird needing to think how to do things and look up commands for things that are second nature. Like ipconfig /all in Windows. Linux has ethtools with a million switches, and ifconfig which is similar, but different. I run a Pihole docker on my unRAID server, and setting a static DNS was a pain. Some of those things which could give a new user enough problems that they just give up and go back to Windows is why I wouldn’t say it’s for everyone on a whim. Best to get a more user friendly distro and dabble before committing.
Honestly I feel like people would pay more for a simple windowsOS, no spyware, no ads, just fucking works as an OS. I already switched to Linux but some people haven’t or can’t at the moment.
I would also like one that isn’t: “this is the last one I promise. Oops I released another windows like 3 years into it. Guess what gamers, you need it or you can’t get future improvements.”
It’s win10 with dx12 all over again…
There’s not enough money in one time purchase products, always have to forcibly push everyone into an ecosystem focused on subscription and make it difficult to escape from.
The odd part is that I am sure many people and businesses would not mind paying a subscription to keep there existing windows (whatever that happens to be) up to date. It would be way cheaper then making a new OS every few years.
But then they might have to accept that the technology is maturing overall…
It already just works, keep projecting and troubleshooting linux
Windows 10 replaced 7 for most people because 8 was a piece of junk. Windows 7 was old by the time 10 came out so there was pent up demand and 10 was a pretty solid showing.
There’s not much that’s compelling about 11 and they’ve introduced unwanted things. It shouldn’t be surprising that people prefer to stay on 10, which is one of the better operating systems Microsoft has ever released. Combine that with the dominance of Linux in the server space and what seems like increased adoption on the desktop and it’s a recipe for poor numbers. For a lot of developers, it’s easier being on a Linux desktop when Linux is the deployment target.
Is there even any actual positive for upgrading? I haven’t heard a single good thing about Windows 11 vs 10
I actually love Windows 11 personally (no I’m not paid by MS). I get an extra hour of battery life on 11 somehow, and finally like 2 years in the right click menu is getting support from 3rd party apps so it’s not just in the way and is actually nice and fast unlike a bloated legacy right click menu.
Windows 11 has a lot of issues, but most of them are carry overs from windows 10. The same work arounds work for 11 as 10 so if you do an upgrade you don’t even have to deal with them.
Thanks, I’ve disabled the right click Win 11 menu on launch as it was terrible, missed a lot of functions, but good to know it’s better now.
Yeah mostly I’ve only heard people defending Windows 11 with “It’s not that bad, guys!”
HDR works better and has more features (ie AutoHDR) on win11
Extra spying and ads?
I saw in my old line of work that most business over a certain size just have a few key programs that need to work and could not give two shits about whatever new OS was out if it could not run those programs. The fact that in places like the banking sector many of the programs are UNIX era and need emulation just to use on a desktop and not being spied is often a requirement it would make no sense what so ever to upgrade. I have also seen an uptick in Linux and Mac workstations as both are looking more attractive then the wild ride windows has become.
Oh and in case people think security on older OS is a concern for companies I know for a fact that several ATMs in north America are still running on XP (upgraded about 7 years ago from 2000).
My last gig was as a CIO in a fairly large organization and we had stringent infosec requirements due to the industry we were in. Old operating systems and software are absolutely an issue, although it still doesn’t stop some companies from running them.
Most of the malware going around exploits patched vulnerabilities. It literally takes seconds and not exactly a high skill level to compromise a machine that’s missing security updates. Regular patching is without a doubt one of the best controls you can have in place. The other big issue was social engineering. If you don’t effectively tackle those two things it doesn’t matter what else you do because you will be breached.
Besides that, you’re mostly right. We were all over the security updates but didn’t care for other upgrades because they introduce instability. It’s the last thing you want with thousands of endpoints and a bunch of shitty enterprise apps. Run it until the wheels fall off or it’s approaching EOL for security updates.
Oh sorry if it came across as old software not being a security issue just that most places don’t care or plan around it (those ATMs running XP are running a very stripped and locked down version).
I remember quite a few places paying extra for a little bit longer for updates just due to how rough the change was going to be. I think most of the time when something did go wrong at a place it was (in this order):
- Social engineering
- Some sort of update that was not tested enough (or at all)
- A new roll out going bad (this happened way more then it should have)
- Hardware failure (often because a sales guy did not know the difference between “redundancy” and “reduced failure rate”
- Actual disaster (I remember getting calls about a bank networking device calling home with fan errors as the building it was in was floating down the river)
For sure social engineering. That eventually becomes the most serious threat. The jackpot is getting to a user. They are the ones with access to money, confidential data, etc. and it often won’t set off alarms because it doesn’t look out of the ordinary. Get them to do something on your behalf or grab their credentials and you basically get to bypass security.
You forgot Vista. Nobody wanted Vista because it was a piece of junk. 8 was ok, but since 7 was still supported and people hate change they stuck with 7. The worst thing about 8 was the dumb full screen start menu… once that was gone after 8.1 I enjoyed it just fine and was pretty close to windows 10.
Same goes for 11 for me. I don’t mind it, I hate the tracking and built in news and ads but it’s pretty easy to stop a lot of that. I think the thing I hate the most is the small stuff they release for 11 that 10 could easily have but they will never release it for 10. Like tabbed notepad, or window arrangement, and now built in winrar support. I love these things, but hold them back from 10 just to get people to switch without realizing it’s not enough for people to care that much.
Vista was pretty bad. That was another one most people skipped. They had 2 excellent releases prior to that - 2000 and XP - and then shit the bed with Vista. I still think 8 was worse though. But 2000 was my personal favorite Microsoft OS so what the hell do I know.
“Windows 11 is simply OK. There’s nothing particularly wrong with it except for its hardware requirements.”
Wtf? It’s just ok? It’s a resource hog, excelling at one thing: spyware implementation.
Have you seen the new Taskbar? It has the functionality of a wooden stick. They even had to make a damn patch to put the “Start Task Manager” option back in the context menu! They fucked up the menus and now everything is just “several hundred clicks away”.
And their constant push for subscription based shit is just annoying lime hell.
Linux Desktop is the future, might as well start to get familiar with it now, why wait?
Just like Linux is the great leader in server space.
I went Windows 10 > Linux Mint
I have nothing to complain about. Lateral move in terms of functionality. In terms of general freedom and feeling like I actually own the PC I purchased,… 100% improvement.
If video games weren’t my primary hobby, I’d have switched already. But the gaming experience on Linux is still wanting.
Worth checking into Steam and Nobara if you haven’t.
I mean, if you’re still wanting, it’s wanting.
Personally I don’t really touch EA or Ubisoft so, I don’t miss anything, and even if I was into them, from the looks of things, I wouldn’t be missing much.
I can only speak for myself, but as a gamer I don’t have a lot of complaints with gaming on linux. If most of your games are on steam they should work fine on linux thanks to proton (and steamdeck too). Sure, if you play a lot of multiplayer games where the anti-cheat doesn’t tolerate linux, then staying on windows is understandable. Outside of steam, there are other launchers, lutris and heroic, for example.
I’m personally still dual booting, because one game that I played still doesn’t work on linux, but as I don’t play that game anymore nor have I booted to windows in like 6 months, I might as well get rid of windows once and for all.
Mint ftw!
I’ve loved mint ever since I first tried it. An OS that actually does what I want it to do. My only complaint with mint is that it works so well that I keep forgetting the console commands and have to look them up when I do need them. Thinking about installing suicide linux on an old laptop and learning the hard way lol.
I used Arch for about a decade but I got really tired of babysitting.
Oh, that library causes crashes to such and such app, either downgrade or eat shit until it’s updated again
That can be a day,… a week, a month, maybe longer.
Mint is new enough without being too new and it’s polished enough without seeming like too much, like Garuda or most flavors of Ubuntu.
I had to do the reverse switch and it sucks :(
If microsoft would just put out a modernized version of windows 95 it would probably be seen as “visionary” and be perfect for like what eighty percent of people and businesses, I just want a modern windows that unnoticeable and secure
Honestly, if there was just a modern windows XP that could run the programs I dualboot for, I wouldn’t be dualbooting!
Modern windows is just so bloated and cluttered.
I was gutted when I had to move on from XP. Bring it back!
I’ve been using windows all my life and I’ve never seen anyone not say this about “their” version. Except ME. Fuck ME.
But seriously my dad refuses to switch to Windows from DOS. 95? The best. 98? Can’t for ever to upgrade. Xp or die. 7 forever. 10 or bust. In 10 years it will be people clamoring over 11 and refusing to switch.
I still don’t understand how people prefer 10 over 11. The only difference to me is that 11 isn’t supported on most of my devices. 11 seems like 10 with some “CSS” changes…
For a small example: They hid a bunch of useful things like 7Zip behind a sub-menu. Doing a basic task like zipping a file now requires extra effort. For the short time I used it, everything was like that. Everything was just more steps or more hidden for no reason.
Furthermore, 11 has a ton more spyware in it. 10 was already bad, but 11 just dials it up.
Obviously as much of the installed base can’t upgrade. This was done on purpose. As 10 goes eol, businesses and consumers will have to upgrade their hardware. Pushing new hardware has been msft strategy since forever.
Why though? Do they own parts of manufacturing? Or do they cut deals with CPU companies to have windows installed, therefore making money on every new laptop/cpu sold? The latter sounds most likely
It was called the “line in the sand” when they did this with Vista. I think they have some sort of belief that if people are not needing better and better hardware the whole PC market will falter and they will not be able to sell as much software. This might even be true but as with vista this approach normally just pisses people and companies off.
Yup. It’s the Wintel juggernaut. While the license fees are much lower for pc manufacturers they are still a huge source of Windows revenue. Enterprise and cloud licenses are making it less important than it used to be, but they intend to continue to capture as much rent for windows as possible.
Win11 is more secure than prior releases, but certainly not better enough to justify buying new hardware.
The PC and Windows became a thing because Gates cut deals with hardware OEMs to use DOS, and outsource the OS work to a company that does only microcode software, hence the name. That meant hardware devs could disentangle from high level shit and focus on the hardware, which saves them money and effort, and in exchange Microsoft gets paid via OEM license and completely locks down the PC market.
What did they expect? Windows 11 cannot run in anything.
This is normal Microsoft cadence: one good OS, one shitty OS.
Yes, but that’s a downward spiral. Every good version is a worse user experience than the previous good version.
Windows 12 is supposed to be a subscription service.
Also Windows 10 was/is some ass compared to 7. Preinstalls apps, has ads, inconsistent UI elements, etc.
This is patently false, and I don’t understand how this rumor is going around still. This started because people found code in windows 11 previews for subscription based windows. That was related to windows 11 enterprise iot. Not windows 12. Not windows 11. The iot version of windows.
Idk why anybody would use windows on embedded systems, but I also don’t know how this rumor is still going around.
Have you heard about decrapify? I highly recommend it for all new Win10 installs.
There are many tools and scripts to remove bloatware from Windows, which is why I specified a stock install, since the majority of users will use the stock install.
Also I haven’t daily driven Windows in over a decade now. Been using Linux.
New os ass because i have to click uninstall candy crush 🤣🤣 takes 1/10 of the time needed to whine on internet about it
Does Windows 11 still requires a TPM module?
I was forced to switch at work and the UI ergonomics itself is a major step back compared to Win 10. It’s such a chore to work with. The start menu, which is one of the major features of Windows, is a disorganized mess. It looks like an iPhone app menu and you really have to focus to find the app you’re looking for. Or else create folders which require an extra click. Compared to the Win10 menu where you could have big ass tiles and organize them in groups made it really easy to locate and click and you just got used to the location. I could use my Win10 start menu blindfolded.
And let’s talk about the rounded corners and gaps. Win10 has no gaps. No blank spaces. Every piece of pixel real estate is used. And you know exactly what you click on. I can’t say the same about win11.
And going into the settings… Well the settings button is gone from the start menu for one. You gave to right click on start and select it from the context menu. The settings have become harder to find, especially advanced settings.
And finally, my parents installed it on their home PCs. Everything is linked to their Microsoft account and it just collects heaps of data on your usage. Plus the ads. Like, what the fuck Microsoft??? I care about my privacy. I already have a god damn corporate big brother watching and listening to everything in my pocket thanks to my smart phone and every website tracking my every move on the internet. Can I at least have some privacy on my home computer and a break from ads??? Goddamn!
I made a promise that I will never switch to win11 and would rather go Linux full time when Win10 reaches end of life. I’ve been a long time Linux user and already started to easily enjoy gaming in Linux thanks to Steam and proton so there is very little holding me back now.
I would very much like to switch (back) to Linux. I used it (and FreeBSD!) 20+ years ago as my daily driver.
Unfortunately, there are a few things that keep me stuck in windows… -Music production. I know Reaper exists (I use it and script for it daily), but my Maschine hardware that I paid good money for won’t run with Linux. And beyond that there’s still a subset of plugins (again, that I’ve paid for) that I’m just not likely to be able to use, and most of that which I can use will be unsupported. -Adobe. Lightroom in particular. Eventually I will wean off this, but as of now, it’s simply the best tool I have to unify all my photography (old and new) across all devices with very, very little friction.
I can find a suitable counterpart for just about everything else I use.
Also, FWIW - I recently revitalized an old laptop with Ubuntu and that’s become a springboard for seeing if I can map out a path to Linux for my other needs.
(Apologies for rant - it’s front of mind for me lately!)
Similar issue, I’m bound by programs that only seem to work on Windows.
For me, it’s heavily modded Skyrim and Fallout 4. Something about linux seems to break skse/enb and after a few hours trying to debug it, I got nowhere.
Steam in-home streaming might help you out for the odd game that is only works in Windows for you. You have a Windows machine with the game installed/setup, and that get streamed to the computer of your choice over your LAN. A few of my buddies use it to play computer games on their TVs when they don’t feel like sitting at their desk.
I’ve never had a VST not work on Linux through WINE and a bridge. Native Instruments plugins are a bit of a pain due to Native Access, but it’s still possible to get running. Serum works, but requires a DLL bypass. Most Windows-only DAWs also work via WINE, but I’d recommend checking out Bitwig.
Also check out darktable instead of Lightroom. I haven’t used either, but I hear darktable is a good replacement.
Not sure about Maschine hardware since I don’t own any.
Plugins should be easy to use and pretty painless thanks to yabridge. Also just running reaper fully on wine is fine option with a ñn asio bridge to JACK. I tried it once just to play around and was impressed at how easy and performant was. Shame in the maschine hardware, this is the only thing I could find about that https://github.com/wrl/maschine.rs I also got triggered by win11 to switch to Linux half a year ago and couldn’t be happier on endeavour os, no problems so far on the music production side,even with heavy drm’d plug ins. Work flow s also much better, as I can run higher sample count with lower latency than windows thanks to pipewire.
That maschine.rs tool looks intriguing, though limited to mk2 (I have mkiii). It keep seems to connect it as a midi device, for use in midi mode, which is not my main use case. I may try though. If I just want a midi pad controller there are plenty of choices beyond maschine, whose actually killer feature is full edit workflow through its own interface (connected to PC, yes, but you can avoid using the computer for the most part).
Someone mentioned darktable. I am familiar with it - it’s a perfectly serviceable interface/non-destructive editor, but it’s the interoperability/workflow that lightroom provides that is the secret sauce (ie - all devices, edit anywhere, sync to desktop (where I keep originals and do heavier edits) and back). I’ll look at darktable again now that I have an install.
At some point (with some use cases) the Linux desktop switch becomes an exercise of putting a square peg in a round hole - an uphill battle of shoehorning in workarounds. I’m game to try - pls don’t read this as being dismissive - but I’ve gone down this path many, many, many times.
The real answer (pie in the sky) is to get commercial product manufacturers to actually support Linux. Snaps exist (software can be done even if inefficiently), but HW requires commitment from the builders.
I both can’t upgrade most of my devices, and have switched to linux on my home pc (in a dualboot with windows still) but use linux mainly. Been pretty nice so far.
It’s almost like artificially limiting adoption to all computers made in ~2018 or later would do that. Software TPM 2 has been present in systems since Haswell (~2014) yet even people with Zen 1 Threadrippers got dicked out of “official” upgrade support due to their computer’s age.