It’s always helpful to remember that it’s not how someone treats their equals that tells you who they are. It’s how they treat those who are weaker than them. Bragging about how he loves punching down is like bragging about being a bully: Chappelle might think it makes him look cool, but it simply makes him look pathetic.
One of the pitfalls of creating pithy terms for nuanced concepts is that people will turn them on their head. To wit, whoever coined the ‘punching’ nomenclature did more punching than anyone.
Also, whether they put their cart away at the grocery store.
Yep, definitely agree with you there!
The real sad story here is what’s not spelled out. Chappelle keeps ‘punching down’ at trans people, and Netflix keeps throwing buckets of money at him. Why? Because people, lots of people, love to watch Dave Chappelle mock the trans community. Netflix does not do anything that doesn’t comply with their algorithm and statistics. It is a cold blooded, by the numbers company. Which means that they have the receipts to prove that their continued support of the very expensive Dave Chappele is worth it. That’s the sad truth and it bums me out.
I’m rephrasing a quote from a user I saw last week but basically Netflix corp made a conscious decision, Transphobic money is worth it to them.
I haven’t set up a media server in a long time but I can’t keep blinding supporting this shit out of convenience.
Definitely a cold-blooded number company/decision. As much as there are a gross number of people that want to watch him make fun of his impressions of trans people, I’m sure there are more “accident rubber-neckers” watching to see if the show is as terrible/great as promoted. Unfortunately, they’re all views that lead to the same thing, cha-ching.
Edit: impressions 🥲
It’s been my experience that bigoted companies don’t do it for the money, they do it for ideological reasons. Hate loses you more than it gains. It’s hard to come to grips with if you have even the littlest bit of faith in humanity, but the megarich universally support this kind of thing.
while you seem to believe dave chappelle is solely to blame for his jokes about the trans community, you must understand the complexities surrounding this issue. before we begin discussing whether or not it’s fair for him to “punch down,” let us first acknowledge the fact that as a black comedian, he cannot possibly perpetuate discrimination due to being part of an underrepresented minority himself.
the reality is that chappelle, like any other stand-up comic, relies on material that resonates with audiences. since he began exploring this topic, it has evidently been a crowd favorite, resulting in netflix supporting his actions. despite feeling disheartened by this, one must respect freedom of speech and artistic expression.
additionally, it’s crucial to recognize that black individuals, including chappelle, face systemic racism, oppression, and injustice daily. many argue that humor is a tool used by marginalized communities to cope with adversity. while the subject matter may appear insensitive to some, context and history should be considered when judging the appropriateness of these jokes.
in conclusion, while your intentions to expose the underlying reasons behind netflix’s support may have been noble, the notion that black people can discriminate is steeped in ignorance. rather than labeling someone as a villain in this situation, perhaps the focus should shift towards encouraging open discussions surrounding race, gender identity, and comedy.
the notion that black people can discriminate is steeped in ignorance
What?
Kinda sad seeing him and Ricky go down this path. Part of what makes good comedy is being unapologetic, but when their takes are off-colour enough that they need to explain them and spend whole specials explaining themselves I think they’ve lost it, what a strange hill to die on (I say this being a huge fan of them both prior to their most recent specials, I guess as we all are)
Chappelle has been a hack since the end of Chappelle’s show IMO. He got way too full of himself and basically thought he was the greatest shit since sliced bread. And then he resorted to being a piece of shit edgelord to try and claw back any standing he had through shock humor and it’s just sad. Then of course he played the victim and said he was being cancelled. Nah Dave, you’re just an unfunny piece of shit.
ricky’s success at legitimate entertainment was all due to stephen merchant, which is why he’s stuck being a bigot on netflix “comedy” specials.
and chappelle was always rubbish
Personal taste is valid, but in 2002/2003, Dave Chappelle was untouchable in comedy. He was doing sketch comedy different, and it contextualized and lampooned race relations in North America. It was eye opening for a lot of white people to watch, and immensely validating for the black community. Maybe it doesn’t all land these days, but it was cutting edge comedy in the early 00s.
His early stand up is awesome too. While deployed in the military, my buddies and I watched For What It’s Worth and Killin’ Them Softly so many times. We just repeated jokes to each other most of the day. It really helped kill the time with all the waiting.
I just don’t understand his obsession to die on this hill.
All the comedy genius came from Paul Mooney’s writing.
Extras is the best thing they ever did, and yeah it would have been shit without Merchant.
Why is Netflix still making specials with this guy? Are they contractually obligated or something? Had they already paid him anyway? WTF?
Poor boy doesn’t know how to be relevant! Just go away already, what a waste.
I cancelled my Netflix because they kept giving money to this shit and the CEO is unapologetic about it. That and also they are shit towards their employees.
No regrets.
At this point, this isn’t surprising. Disappointing, yes, but barely.
What new “material” did Dave think up to dunk on trans people? Did he find that holy grail of “LiBeRaL hYpOcRiSy!” that gets right wingers foaming at the mouth?
At this point, he’s just a washed up, mainstream entertainer doing culture war bits instead of actual comedy. Like, you’re still doing trans jokes, my guy? 2012 called and wanted its asinine kneejerk takes back. He’s always been the king of bad takes (defending statutory rape involving R Kelly, victim blaming R Kelly’s victims, questioning the age of consent laws in America) and has exercised BROKEN logic in the past in order to make jokes land, but that’s the difference between old Dave and new Dave: HIS JOKES WERE ACTUALLY FUNNY AND MITIGATED HIS BAD TAKES.
He would love punching down. It takes little effort, and “little effort” is precisely what he’s been putting into his comedy lately.
Netflix seems really happy not getting my money. Good for them.
It’s more a matter of them not noticing since they are getting tons of money from others who do enjoy his special. It’s sad that people seem to eat up this shit. I use to really enjoy Chappell but I just can’t anymore.
I kind of hate that not only does this asshole’s face immediately leap at me on Netflix, but now it’s on Beehaw too.
lemmygrad’s “shit reactionaries say” does the honorable thing by blurring out their logo when you’re not visiting them and always blurring their posts because nobody wants to see that pedophillic neo-nazi on the side of their front page while scrolling.
This is a message to people in generally, not specifically the top level comment:
If your instance, or app/frontend offers a keyword filter/block, I would suggest adding Chappelle to the list.
Politicians, or words of violence can also be added if you generally want a joyful experience on Lemmy; staying up to date the news and politics can be important, but some people get plenty of that from outside of Lemmy, and may want this to be a space to relax, chill, or experience their interests and hobbies, or something important to them on a personal level.
That sounds lovely, I’ll have to take a look. I just use Firefox, so I’m not sure if I have that option, but it certainly would be work looking into if it’s possible.
I’ve only ever used vger.app (just a frontend in your web browser). It does have filter and block settings under the Settings menu.
Due to that though I’m not really familiar with standard Lemmy and other apps. I think a recent update to Lemmy itself added the ability to personally block whole instances. I don’t see that option in the vger app, but should be available from your instance login if it is up to date.
I prefer not to use apps where a website will do. No need to have yet another instance of chromuim.
Oh no, it is a web app (essentially just a website). If you see someone speaking of a web app, it typically won’t require any downloading, or separate applications. It is just delivered through your regular browser (like Firefox in your case).
Unless Apollo comes back with a Lemmy version, I don’t intend to ever download a Lemmy app.
Oh, neat!
He’s a comedian, he makes fun of people. If you don’t like it then you’re not the target audience. There’s plenty of comedians out there making fun of other groups
Making a peanut butter and jelly doesn’t make you a chef. If everyone says your food sucks, it sucks.
Chappelle isn’t as funny as he used to be and lately he’s being dumb as fuck.
I’m not sure that’s the best analogy. As far as I know, Dave Chappelle is still pretty popular. So everyone isn’t saying his comedy sucks.
I don’t have Netflix so I haven’t seen his most recent specials. But my feelings about him are mixed. He has a nuanced take on controversial issues and isn’t afraid of voicing his opinions about them to push the conversation forward. I think he is taking a contrarian stance against what he perceives as a lack of nuance in response to his side of the conversation. I can understand being frustrated at tackling a complex issue imperfectly and simply being labeled a transphobe in response. But I also think he’s overamplifying these voices in his head.
I think comedy is a great method of breaking societal tensions and exposing people to new perspectives. Bill Burr also has a lot of controversial nuanced takes. I think he gets away with it more because he does more to establish just how imperfect he is. Overall I think Dave should disengage from trans issues because he’s already said what he has to say. He shouldn’t let the critics get him fired up enough to fire back. He should also acknowledge his own imperfections and avenues for growth. But maybe I’m misreading his intentions and feelings. Maybe I’m mischaracterizing his critics. I just see a lot of complexity in this debate and a lot less complexity in the responses to it.
Bill Burr does not really punch down like this though.
I’ve watched the specials. Dave’s comedy is now “I am black, I have trans friends, I understand oppression so I can bully anyone”
And it just isn’t really funny most of the time you’re uncomfortable and then at the end of his set when typically you’d expect Dave to wrap up with some moral or understanding he continues punching down.
Sorry but that’s just him now we’ve seen it before. On the bottom you’re empathetic, coming up you have words to share, he’s loaded now and his richness shows. He is out of touch, ignorant and does not do enough to push in the other direction he fully let’s people down and not once stands up for them just constantly joking about it with no clarity.
He’s tone deaf and out of touch. Fuck him he ain’t funny even my friends who don’t share all my views to my level know overall he’s just not as funny as he used to be.
Maybe you’re right and he’s just gotten rich and out of touch. But I think it’s worth looking at his history a bit. He had millions thrown into his lap. However he saw the harm in his comedy and decided to throw away the check and abandon his career for years. It seems like it would take more to make that person rich and out of touch. Maybe I’m being too charitable. Recent years have radicalized some of my friends in different directions. He could have fallen victim to the same forces that turned my friends away from a well adjusted life.
He has a nuanced take on controversial issues and isn’t afraid of voicing his opinions about them to push the conversation forward. I think he is taking a contrarian stance against what he perceives as a lack of nuance in response to his side of the conversation. I can understand being frustrated at tackling a complex issue imperfectly and simply being labeled a transphobe in response.
I don’t think that’s a good excuse in general, but for Chappelle specifically it definitely doesn’t work.
If I remember correctly, when he walked away from his show is was partly due to the wrong people laughing for the wrong reasons. Bigots were laughing at his “nuanced takes” on the black community for their own racist reasons and missing the point.
Even if you think Chappelle isn’t bigoted and he’s trying to make some other point, after all this time it should be very clear to him bigots are missing the point and laughing for the wrong reasons.
He had the strength and conviction to walk away when it was the black community he thought he might be harming but not when it’s trans people.
just to add to the plethora of responses: it rather defies belief that he’s purely “joking” when, among other things, he’s taken photos with anti-trans legislators like Lauren Boebert and let them frame those photos in this manner:
I don’t like Dave new specials, but he said he wasn’t pleased with that she did: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/dave-chappelle-poses-lauren-boebert-164759657.html
He said during his standup act at Capital One Arena in Washington that he granted the photo request by Boebert for a human moment to bridge the political divide but felt “blindsided” by her, according to a progressive influencers’ blog.
“It’s a shame she tricked me,” Chappelle said, according to Call to Activism. “I had two tickets to ’Beetlejuice’ and I was going to give her one!”
this is, and i mean this respectfully, one of the weakest condemnations imaginable if he’s actually got a problem with her doing this. this has zero teeth. it’s also literally Lauren Boebert, a person who has made her name being a freakish culture warrior–what did he think she was going to do?
The thing is, she couldn’t have framed it that way if he wasn’t a bigot to begin with.
Imagine she takes a picture like this with someone like AoC or whatever and captioned it that way. It would make no sense and just make her seem crazy. But it makes perfect sense with Chapelle because he’s been very clear that he’s transphobic.
I think he’s just uncomfortable with accepting the reality of the groups he’s become most aligned with. It’s cognitive dissonance.
for a human moment to bridge the political divide
Of all the people to try to bridge a divide with… yeah, not buying it here either.
Being awful isnt a “target audience” issue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
“Satire is meant to ridicule power. If you are laughing at people who are hurting, it’s not satire, it’s bullying.” – Someone
Honestly it’s kind of hard to know how to respond to this.
We recognize that “I was just joking” isn’t a universal defense, otherwise people wouldn’t have had an issue with minstrel shows. But as a society we’ve come to recognize that humor can be persuasive and can inform people’s beliefs about what others are like. It’s similar to how sites like 4chan that started out with cultures that were drenched in ironic racism eventually were just actually racist.
“Any community that gets its laughs by pretending to be idiots will eventually be flooded by actual idiots who mistakenly believe that they’re in good company.”
There’s making fun of people, and then there’s just playing up long disproven stereotypes as a way of being insulting. If blackface is insulting, so is pretending to be trans on stage and telling imaginary prisoners to suck your girl dick.
Sure, but do comedians do multiple netflix specials filled with mocking one group of people? I’d say his material is pretty trash if he has to stoop to this repeatedly.
He’s one of those people who can’t handle criticism, so when he feels attacked he doubles down. He can’t move onto new material because he can’t let go of that perceived slight against him.
This is the shittiest take on this website
The problem is that he’s constantly making fun of the trans community and is now doing it specifically because it makes them angry. It’s not good comedy when the people you’re making fun of aren’t laughing too.
The other problem is that he’s playing the victim while doing it. He’s claimed that he’s being cancelled for what he’s said and whines about it in every new special. And yet, he keeps getting specials.
I used to love his comedy, but this constant attack on Trans people, an already marginalized group, is unfunny and in very poor taste.
It’s not good comedy when the people you’re making fun of aren’t laughing too.
This is where I draw the line between comedians like Dave Chappelle and, say, Jimmy Carr. It’s fair to say Jimmy Carr isn’t everybody’s cup of tea, because his jokes can be really dark and really offensive - but he pokes fun at everybody, not just one specific group, and he can take it when someone pokes back.
When a comedian makes fun of everybody, and sees the humour when others make fun of them, it gives the sense there’s no real hatred or malice there, and that makes it better comedy than when the jokes come from a place of real bigotry.
Okay sure, but by mocking and dehumanizing trans people he encourages violence against them which is already a massive issue for trans people. But I love comedy, other than bigoted it’s just lazy and played out and comes across like an old dude mad at scary new changes in society.
Translation: “I’m white and passively support every genocide because it isn’t targeted at me. I would have been OK with with the holocaust.”
@Reddit_Is_Trash @alyaza Why is your name Reddit_Is_Trash and you’re behaving like a typical Redditor?
this
He makes fun of everyone, that’s always been his thing. The problem isn’t about him being unfair to one specific minority. The problem is demanding censorship or cancellation just because something offends your personal sensibilities.
I’d much rather have comedians talk shit about everyone including their own peers and ethnic groups, than live in a world of dulled down, censored content. Fuck everyone equally!
He isn’t being censored. He has the right to say these things , but everyone else also has the right given by free speech to criticize him. That is not censorship or being cancelled. That is simply how free speech works. Having the right to free speech doesn’t protect anyone from criticism
The problem is the jokes aren’t funny. Or even really jokes. It’s just the same hateful garbage that you’ll find in any right wing comment section with no clever twist or respect for the humanity of the people being made fun of. It’s all variations on “haw haw, these people are pretending to be something they’re not, ew gross”. It’s not true, it’s not “keeping it real”, it’s not insightful, and anyone who actually knows or cares about the trans community knows that hearing that all the time will drive some people to kill themselves. Maybe even worse than that, it’ll foster that attitude in people even less compassionate that Dave Chappelle, who I don’t think has any particular malice toward individual trans people, but he’s telling those who do that they’re right.
There’s definitely humor to be had about the trans community, just visit any trans meme board and you’ll find it. There are stereotypes and self-deprecation and tons of really dark humor going on. What’s coming out of Chappelle’s mouth isn’t that, it’s just undercooked right wing bigotry.
When there isn’t a genocide in the works maybe that’d be true. But why not let him rather make jokes about the Palestinian kids being murdered, because fuck everyone right? It shows your utter disconnect from the matter. It’s fine that he punches down as long as it’s not you that’s being punched down on and having your right to be alive eroded every day while more and more hate murders happen to trans people, because that’s so funny right? Haha fuck them… You don’t sound like you’re really marginalised at all, nor persecuted for being alive, so I think until you are, people with your viewpoint should just stfu.
I think people might be getting tired of the “I have no respect for anyone or anything no matter how delicate, bad taste and shit stirring are funny haha, isn’t it cool to be uselessly disruptive and cruel” thing in general. As someone gender non-conforming, fuck Dave Chapel, but I suspect he’s a canary in the mine for a sea change in the kind of jokes people enjoy in this crushing scary and depressing era. It doesn’t help he is making fun of a group Republicans are openly plotting to oppress if not erase. You know. Like some sort of coward who goes after acceptable targets and doubles down despite the backlash because they are so very lucrative in their exploitability. As a plus, he’s getting in on the ground floor of the Nazi-lite entertainer-to-propagandist operation, so he will be forging connections with everyone who keeps getting cancelled by wokescolds. When that starts happening to one of these weak willed celebrities, they end up tripling down on their weakest character traits and circling wagons with the worst fuckers alive.
If you’re a fan of Chappelle’s, all you can do for him is email or tweet him that you think he’s being cringe. He’s not going to stop otherwise, he’s being/has been inducted into the canceled club for free thinkers and he-says-what-were-all-thinking right wingers.
The problem isn’t about him being unfair to one specific minority.
Yes. Yes it is.
You also not giving a shit about marginalised people don’t magically make bigotry ok.
He saw what happened to JK Rowling and was like hold my beer
It sucks to see this. I didn’t watch this one, so maybe it’s actually funny? I don’t know. But I think the dude made some good jokes in the past which homed great points, about LGBTQ people in the US and how it easy it was for them to get rights compared to black people. And his trans jokes originally? I liked them! The car bit? Quite funny! And I think lots of people made a big deal out of it over nothing… it got a bit far, it made him spiteful and spite can turn people into absolute morons. Dude used to make jokes about trans people, funny ones too, like, my god, I’ll take any joke that isn’t: “If a MaN cAn idENTifY aS A WoMAn, thEn I idEntiFy as A [INSERT RANDOM OBJECT]” (kys)… but lately, he’s just been taking time off of his show to just spew his bad takes, as far as I can tell (again, I didn’t watch this one).
It’s been so easy to get rights. Clearly that’s why there are literally states where I’m not allowed to pee.
In comparison to black people? Yes, LGBTQ people have had a VERY easy time of getting rights in comparison to black people. You need to take a step back and think about what you are insinuating.
There has never been anything insightful or righteous about Chapelle’s dismissal of lgbt people’s fight to secure their rights. He doesn’t get a free pass to be a bigot because black people are an oppressed group too, the comparison is sort of dishonest.
What Chapelle is trying to do is secure his place in a heirarchy, by punching down he’s defending the very system and mode of thought that has oppressed both black and lgbt people (which are not mutually exclusive groups as he must frame it for his logic to work). Ironically, he is doing exactly what a patriarchal white supremacist would want; to divide oppressed minorities and weaken their efforts for equality. And he’s using much of the same rhetorical fallacies that have been used to promote right-wing political philosophy.
Chapelle has always been a profoundly dishonest person, it’s just become more apparent now that he’s trying to speak on experiences he clearly knows little to nothing about outside the stereotypes he’s been too intellectually lazy to disabuse himself of.
For satirical comedy to be good there has to be an element of truth at the center, with Chapelle its simply a kernel of hate. It’s readily apparent to the people he’s targeting.
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We literally do not have rights in most of the world. It’s fully illegal to be trans in a lot of places. In some places it carries a death sentence. Get real. A struggle you’re less aware of does not equal a struggle that doesn’t exist.
Are you able to mask? Yes.
Are black people able to mask? No.
You will not be treated any differently if you mask. Black people cannot mask. I’m not saying that that is an ideal situation, but stop pretending that your struggle is the same.
Are you able to book a hotel in another state and be sure you’ll be able to stay there when you get there? Do you have legal recourse if they decide to deny you? Are you able to pee in public bathrooms without being arrested? When’s the last time there was a ballot question explicitly asking if maybe it would be good to take away all your rights? Not some shady bill that effectively harms your rights, but one that comes straight out and says it’s targeting black people?
We definitely go through different things, that’s for sure. But you’re acting like the job’s done for us. It isn’t. Gay folks have made significant headway, but trans people? We’re literally the favorite political scapegoat of the era. If we happen to live in one of the few areas that deems fit to grant us basic rights, awesome. But many don’t, and even in those places where we do have rights that doesn’t mean we’re actually welcomed. Massachusetts is great, but there are towns where I certainly wouldn’t be safe.
There are definitely different elements to the struggle of black people and the struggle of trans people, but we live on the same street.
But hey, divide and conquer right? Might as well play into their hands like a crab in a bucket.
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Doesn’t that suggest that LGBT people should have more rights at this point? Like gay marriage still isn’t legal in lots of places, but black people don’t have that issue.
I think the fairer thing to say is that the struggles have been very different for different groups of people.
I mean, black people have fought for equality for 200+ years and still get hunted down like dogs in the south, discriminated for doing anything while black.
LGBTQ have been openly fighting for what… 50 years? and that’s being generous…
Do you think being gay is new?? People have ALWAYS been gay, people have ALWAYS been black. Both these fights go back to the dawn of time.
Apparently reading is not where your strengths lie.
I used the word “openly” for a reason in my last comment.
Anyway, your attempts to equivocate the struggle of black people to LGBTQ people is alarming. But at this point screw it. You see no difference and I don’t have the emotional bandwidth to help you think more broadly than your narrow view, so imma take a mulligan on this one.
So you think gay people didn’t want rights pre 1974? Or were they just really secretive about it? I remember how subtle Stonewall was. Or that whole holocaust situation in the 40’s.
We have records of LGBT people arguing for their rights in antiquity.
You have no idea what you’re talking about clearly.
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