there’s more than shown here and it’s more than just these users too 😭
if you find the thread don’t piss in the popcorn (brigade) but also please maybe don’t bring it back here i don’t want 400 notifications of entry level “is almond milk milk” vegan discourse
Production do be existing cause of demand tho
Exhibit A: Cheese.
It took me way too long to admit that the poster was talking about production as in “is being produced by nature without human interference” and not “humans produce it because humans want it”
Ohhhh. Thanks
Naw, they think that a reduction in demand would not reduce supply. As to why anyone would keep making production levels of milk to rot away with no buyers? They need to see it to believe it.
that is not what i was saying
Then what the heck were you saying? That a family might keep a couple goats around? Because I think that still counts as demand.
I would just like to bring up that most equestrians don’t farm their horses milk. Without demand it would probably be similar
I like milk
Okay Homelander
No you don’t; that’s not possible. You don’t actually know what you like. How could your brain evaluate its own desires? And if you think you do, you’re wrong.
Blizzard, is that you?
Fuck you
No, fuck you
Well fuck me.
ok
Now kisth
Have you tried pilk?
I milk oats
Mr. President there has been another cat food incident
a second low-tier vegan talking point has hit the servers
I’m gonna need you to crop your memes my guy. This is a violation.
the joke is the bad crop/wall of text
Transcribing the conversation here:
Recessa, ↑4 ↓1: That’s completely idiotic, milk exist because there’s demand for it.
commie, ↑1 ↓4: I think you understand that milk is produced as part of the mammalian reproductive cycle. can you describe the casual steps between demanding milk and it’s production?
friendlymessage, ↑3 ↓2: Do you think dairy cattle just randomly spawns on the planetary surface?
commie, ↑1 ↓3: do you think there’s a direct casual linke between drinking milk and more being produced?
friendlymessage, ↑3: Are you fucking with me?
commie, ↑2 ↓3: no. I’m trying to illustrate that markets are not governed by natural law; they are populated by irrational actors.
friendlymessage, ↑2 ↓1: Yeah, but they’re not as irrational as you are and producing milk costs money. If there’s no market, they will stop because they are not fuckin lunatics and they don’t have infinite resources
commie, ↑2 ↓2: milk was farmed before markets existed. there is no reason to believe that will ever stop.
friendlymessage, ↑3 ↓1: That… must be the dumbest discussion I’ve had in a while. Please read through your comments tomorrow when you’re sober
commie, ↑1 ↓1: I’ve been sober all day.
friendlymessage, ↑1: Okay, whatever you say
commie, ↑1 ↓2: everything I’ve said is true. you’re objecting to reality, and being pretty shitty about it to me.
friendlymessage, ↑2: No, you’re just making a no sensical argument at all. Milk was farmed from dairy cattle because it was consumed by humans. It’s simple supply and demand. There is no rational argument at all that if mankind stopped consuming milk, it would still be farmed. Why would any farmer go through the effort to upkeep cows and keep them impregnanted to make them produce milk if they cannot trade it or won’t consume it? Yes, humans have free will but they won’t produce stuff with very high effort just for fun. Except maybe very sick minds that just enjoy animal cruelty. And you won’t elaborate what your actual point is anyway.
Also, not that it matters, but you’re arguing that dairy farming existed before the market is simply wrong. There has been trade between human civilizations long before we started domesticating animals.
Appreciate it but your comment got auto corrected on two instances of “causal” to “casual” by commie.
Oh, I don’t use autocorrect, so that was probably my mistake. Fixed it now!
Thank you for your service o>
There’s a common misunderstanding among a lot of .ml folks that markets are a capitalist thing and if you just don’t call them that then they don’t exist.
… they’re not a .ml user
Also it’s just untrue lol? We know markets predate capitalism, I’d be surprised to find anyone disagreeing
Obviously nobody drank milk in the USSR shitlib
Everyone knows that history starts at the industrial revolution and no one had went “hey I’ll give you two goats if you give me some salt” before that.
I agree with friendlymessage, but my god is he an ass about it
Can you rephrase their argument? To me it’s nonsense
I think commie begins saying that milk is naturally produced during the normal birthing of young. Then gets side tracked by the commercial aspect of milk as a product. Namely, no demand, no product. I could be wrong…
this wasn’t the start of the conversation
Commie thinks that milk is just a byproduct of cows existing. Friendlymessage correctly points out that you need to repeatedly get cows pregnant, take away their calves, and feed them to produce milk and nobody would do it if there wasn’t a market demand. In essence, there’s zero situation where milk can be ethically vegan if that’s your ethical framework.
You don’t need to keep getting them pregnant, you just need to consistently keep milking them. Milk production continues for as long as it is not left untaken. Definitely not vegan at all.
That’s absolutely incorrect. It’s a significant amount of time, around 10 months, but you have to repeatedly get a cow pregnant over their useful life in order to continue getting milk from them.
I stand corrected.
This is btw one main reason why milk is murder, because many of those calves are often killed for their meat. The other reason is that cows stop beeing productive and are killed way before their natural death, since the replacement calves are rdy to go (I think it was something like after 5 years with their natural life span beeing around 25, but I’m not sure if I remember correctly).
A bit oversimplified, but just to add a bit more context why vegans don’t drink milk.
Commie implied that milk was farmed before markets existed and I was honestly baffled
I didn’t have a good grasp of history. apparently we mined before developing agriculture, which is wild to me.
What would mining have to do with agriculture and therefore milk?
mining was the Genesis if trade, but it’s assumed it would have followed trade. I also was mistaken that trade would, therefore, follow animal agriculture.
Commie thinks that milk is just a byproduct of cows existing.
I never said that
please maybe don’t bring it back here
no u
😾 meanie head
there’s zero situation where milk can be ethically vegan if that’s your ethical framework.
risking incivility, duh.
it’s an animal product
friendlymessage is arguing that if there’s no demand for milk (ie people stop drinking milk), then the production of milk will fall or cease.
I have no idea what commie is talking about
In my defense: there already was a very deep comment chain before this and the whole thing was just infuriatingly stupid
@friendlymessage@feddit.org is an ass about it because commie is constantly all over Lemmy defending the dairy industry in the most asinine and stubborn ways imaginable (with an air of Ben Shapiro’s “facts and logic” attitude), and it’s completely insufferable. They’re genuinely on a similar level to what UniversalMonk was on !politics@lemmy.world. Every one of their disinformation-laden arguments is trivially debunked with even five seconds of thought, but they speak on it with absolute, unwavering confidence and accept literally no evidence to the contrary when they just make shit up out of thin air (as a cherry on top, they also create untenable comment chains by posting at least two comments in response to every single one of your replies to them). They make Lemmy a worse place by being here.
Almond milk is a waste of water and is priced out of poor families ability to buy them :(
I know. Almond milk is a huge waste of water. But unfortunately, it’s harder to find others like oat and soy in their unsweetened variants.
That just depends on where you are. It is as prevalent in major cities in my state as oat, soy, and alternatives.
this is based on poore-nemececk 2018, a meta"study" that ignores guidance on LCA studies being unable to be combined, and doesn’t even have the integrity to disclose this in the paper. it’s bad science.
“Bad science” is commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com for “I don’t want this to be true”.
it could be true, but the study used to support it is flawed.
“flawed study” is @commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com for “I didn’t like the conclusions some researcher who spent a long time looking into all the scientific studies drew, so I’m going to cast vague doubts about it instead”
Both of those people are morons. One for making the argument, the other for engaging in the argument.
some rhetorical hills were not meant to be treaded, much less died upon
Me, yesterday
also me
Just went back to that thread. The discussion continued for 4 more hours after I stopped responding, and no, it did not go anywhere. That was definitely worth everyone’s time
It’s about the journey and the friends you meet along the way.
Raw milk is totally safe…if the cow is totally healthy and if there aren’t pathogens floating around the cow.
I mean, my friend next door used to drink off the cows’s teats. His Mom would scold him for it, but he did it to show off. We used to milk their three “city cows”. Literally the cows would sleep in their garage and then walk to pasture on an every day basis. They would get milked every morning and we would walk to their house and buy a couple of liters from them. Sometimes cheese or bulgaros yogurt.
Everyone loved the cows. They smelled like cows but you could safely pet them and not expect feces on your hands.
The cows we get milk from are all rolling around in feces in confined space and they eat dry moldy feed. Like that stuff is total animal abuse and prone to end up giving someone a cow Bourne disease of some kind.
My neighbors also had pigs and we had pigs. That is why we never ate pig… cows are clean compared to pigs. Pigs will eat bugs smeared in pig feces. That is not normal really because pigs in the wild, although dirty, do not just swim in their feces like captive pigs do. If you ever want to go vegan for whatever reason, visit a captive pig farm. Learn that smell…then go to the butcher shop’s trash bin and learn that smell…then realize that when you get your meat in your fridge, the death smell is what you’re smelling. Makes me wanna puke 🤮 just thinking about it. And if your neighbors ever killed a pig, you would know it. Pigs don’t go down easy. That’s one positive thing I can definitely say about pigs. They know you’re gonna kill them and they scream like anyone would…as in a person. It churns you inside out hearing that scream and then when it stops you know it happened. Pigs don’t go down quietly.
Anyway don’t eat animals, but if you’re gonna eat milk or dairy, make sure it’s pasteurized! Any well understood retarded person like myself could agree 💯👍.
r-slur spotted, comment ignored.
I am happy I live in ireland, the standard for milk and stuff seems to be higher here.
How do you actually see the image? I just get “glide failed to grab image”. I tried to open the link directly and get connection error too. Not the first time I have experienced this on posts, but trying to figure out if the image was taken down or if the image is actually blocked.
its hosted on catbox.moe my instance was having a bad day for image uploads
sad to say everything is working for me so its something on your end
Was gonna make a blizzard joke here, but this person is so intellectual that they wouldn’t get the low-grade humor, or how milk production before markets only works if everyone works a single farm, and cannot work if the population is scaled up.
Damn, I didn’t make the screenshot.
make no mistake being in this thread is not a mark of honor lmao
Wanna swap?
I like cow milk with My coffee.
“Loncoleche the hace bien”
- loncoleche.
would love to know what this means
I’ve seen what I know as “te” today written “the” more than once by a seeming native Spanish speaker (I’m not one). Do you know if that’s a dialect, trend, autocorrect from people who use English a lot, or something else?
Probably the last thing.
💃
