Here’s the specific timestamp of the incident you mentioned in case you wanted to actually see it: https://youtu.be/aqsiWCLJ1ms?t=1190
The car wanted to move through the intersection on a green left turn arrow. I’ve seen a lot of human drivers do the same. In any case, its fixed now and never was part of any public release.
The video didn’t end there, it was near the middle. What you’re referring to is a regression specifically with the HW3 model S that failed to recognize one of the red lights. Now I’m sure that sounds like a huge deal, but here’s the thing…
This was a demo of a very early alpha release of FSD 12 (current public release 11.4.7) representing a completely new and more efficient method of utilizing the neural network for driving and has already been fixed. It is not released to anyone outside of a select few Tesla employees. Other than that it performed flawlessly for over 40 minutes in a live demo.
Other than that it performed flawlessly for over 40 minutes in a live demo.
I get that this is an alpha, but the problem with full self driving is that’s way worse than what users want. If chatgpt gave you perfect information for 40 minutes (it doesn’t) and then huge lies once, we’d be using it everywhere. You can validate the lies.
With FSD, that threshold means a lot of people would have terrible accidents. No amount of perfect driving outside of that window would make you feel very happy.
ffs that is the exact same article again. Please read my other comment (the huge one) let me know if anything doesn’t make sense or you find anything factually inaccurate.
Its saved on to a thumb drive. any user can pull off and use or post the footage anywhere. It never gets uploaded to tesla, only snapshots and telemetry.
lol the anti tesla crew will downvote even the most basic facts.
But is it technically the user’s data, or is there some clause in Tesla car ownership that says it is Tesla the company’s data?
Forgive me I’m ignorant of the fine details. I purchased a Chevy Bolt but had been looking into a Tesla as an alternative until Elon tried to be the super-cool Twitter guy.
Given your posts and rampant Tesla fanboyism, I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if you’re Elon himself just anxiously trying to save face.
Then again, Elon would just publicly sprout misinformation about it all so it probably isn’t. Still, surprising that people are just so obsessed with Tesla they can’t take the bad with the good.
Please let me know where I stated anything inaccurate in the comment about the single incident that has been dug up in the 500k FSD cars and millions of miles traveled self-driving.
Also lets please keep this civil and not be name-calling. I hate Elon as much as anyone else and he deserves pretty much all the hate he gets. However it doesn’t change facts. Its not like he was responsible for writing even a single line of code in FSD or even designed or built any of the cars himself.
not all accidents are that violent. I would even accept a simple fender bender. Those should be pretty common if FSD is dangerous as a lot of people are implying, right?
The first public release was much later than the smaller beta, which I had access to. And my reference to seven years was Josh Brown being killed by autopilot in 2016.
You’re working very hard in this thread to remain in the dark. You could take two seconds to look for yourself, but it seems like you won’t. Hell, they performed a recall because it was driving through stops. Something it’ll still do, of course, but they performed a recall.
Elon literally had to hit the brakes manually in a Livestream of the self driving tech as the car was going to go strait through a red light. Like less than a week ago… SOOOO safe, all the news stories of it killing people are fake!
That was the top google result with a ton of other articles. I’m sure that somehow doesn’t qualify and you’ll move the goalpost in response. Go read some Qanon Elon jizrag news. That’s where the real facts are.
And that’s an article about Autopilot which is a completely separate system. For someone with such strong opinions, you sure seem to lack even a basic understanding of the technology that you’re discussing here, but I’m sure you’ll just pull out more insults and keep making references to your current obsession, Musk, as if that makes your argument any more credible or factual.
The early alpha build not part of public release? That video? The one with the known regression in the model S?
That video was a demo of the new FSD beta 12 software, which is the first time a neural network was in complete control of the car, resulting in a massive reduction in code and overall smoothness. Did I mention the part where it was unreleased to the public? Maybe there’s a reason for that?
Other than that the car performed flawlessly in the entire 40 minute drive.
The recall was most definitely not for “driving through stops”. It was to fix the behavior of doing a “rolling stop”, which is something 99.5% of drivers do, which is how it learned to do that. Where do you see that it still does not make a complete stop at stop signs?
I’m not trying to remain in the dark here, I’m just presenting facts. I’m very open to change my mind on this situation entirely just give me the facts. You said there were thousands of these videos I’m just asking for evidence. I just get downvoted and nobody posts any of the evidence.
Im an AI professional and have been an FSD beta tester for almost 3 years with tens of thousands of miles logged. How can I possibly be the one “in the dark” here?
Or put another way by someone not desperate for Elon’s attention, not stopping. Driving through stops.
Where do you see that it still does not make a complete stop at stop signs?
Signs, lights, it’ll gladly not stop for any of them. Where do I see it? Real life. Actually owning one of these foolish gadgets for 5 years. Where do you see your examples?
Also, don’t send me brad templeton opinion pieces, he’s a complete hack and has outed himself as such many times. He does have a nice video explaining what he thinks of Tesla stans like you though. Did you watch that one, or do you only link his material when it’s convenient?
I’m just presenting facts
No you aren’t, you’re presenting a curated social media marketing campaign. Congrats, you fell for the ad. Do you think that beer is going to make you more attractive, too?
I’m very open to change my mind on this situation entirely
Ok. Tell us what evidence it would take for you to completely change your mind on this and realize Elon is a hack, running a dangerous con with low quality software being released to cars in the US and Canada? What evidence would you require to change your mind and accept that Tesla doesn’t properly test releases before they go out to customers?
I’m an AI professional
This has absolutely zero bearing on anything except that you’re probably extremely susceptible to Elon’s outright lies.
Lets not resort to name calling or personal attacks here. You stated there are “Thousands of videos” of FSD related accidents, I only asked for a few examples. Please tell me where it is you’re getting this information. Help me change my mind.
Do you understand what a “rolling stop” is? It is when you don’t come to a complete stop at a stop sign, you slow down to 0.5 or 1mph, check both ways and move through. This has been studied time and time again that practically NOBODY on the road comes to a full and complete stop at stop signs. That is how the FSD beta was working in earlier releases because thats how it learned to drive. NHTSA said they had to come to a complete stop so Tesla fixed it. You again said that Teslas were still rolling through stop signs and I’m once again asking where you got that information?
“Actually owning one of these foolish gadgets for 5 years” I’m guessing you’re trying to say you own a Tesla? You clearly don’t have FSD because if you did you’d know that it makes full stops 100% of the time. I certainly have doubts you actually do own a tesla because if someone spends 40-60 grand on something they consider a “Foolish Gadget” why on earth would they hold on to it for so long? Just sell it and get something else, move on with your life and don’t bash people who like their cars.
I’ve asked you, now 3 times now to present evidence. Video evidence of FSD doing dangerous things. Given that all teslas have 360 dashcams that are constantly recording and we live in an age of such ease of video sharing that really shouldn’t be a big ask if FSD is as dangerous as you’re implying. These incidents should be happening daily. That is what would change my mind. What would change your mind?
I bought my model Y in 2020 with FSD and emailed tesla for early beta access based on my engineering experience and the part of the country I’m located in. They granted it almost a year later and I’ve been driving with it almost every day since. Why on earth would you doubt that? Do you need some kind of evidence?
Lets not resort to name calling or personal attacks here
If you’re going to be a liar, I’m going to call you one.
Someone has already provided you samples and you contorted yourself trying to deny their existence still. That shows the caliber of person you are.
Do you understand what a “rolling stop” is?
Do you understand what a red light and a stop sign are? See, traffic control devices are to be obeyed properly, and creating software that intentionally breaks the law is irresponsible at best. Only a clown would attempt to defend this. Meanwhile, you’re ignoring Elon’s own video from a week ago because it instantly disproves your insane position.
I’m guessing you’re trying to say you own a Tesla?
I did. I learned my lesson and am a proud one-and-done former tesla owner.
You clearly don’t have FSD
I did. Swing and a miss.
it makes full stops 100% of the time
Except, you know, the fucking recall proves it didn’t. And it still doesn’t after the recall. And of course, it misses traffic control devices frequently, ignores them at speed, attempts to pull through them when stopped, etc. Please, do yourself a favor and end this now. Lying to me isn’t going to work.
if someone spends 40-60
2018 P3D with performance package. More like 70+, with EAP from the factory, and the $2k FSD upgrade when Elon was busy being an idiot about pricing. If you have any questions for someone that’s actually owned one, I’d be glad to answer them for you.
why on earth would they hold on to it for so long?
Waiting for my replacement.
don’t bash people who like their cars.
I didn’t. I bashed you for being a liar.
I’ve asked you, now 3 times now to present evidence.
I asked what evidence would change your mind, and I see you entirely dodged that question. Because there is none. There’s nothing that would change your mind, because your mind is made up. It’s religion, and you don’t convince someone their religion is nonsense. I’m not surprised, of course. All liars behave like this- they pretend there’s something that could completely shift their world view, and change a core piece of their identity… like simping for Musk. But deep down, they know. There’s no such evidence. The racism, the sexual assaults, the financial grift, the hard right bullshit, the transphobia and homophobia, none of that changes your mind. The untested nature of AP and FSD, the release of “smart” summon that immediately started crashing into things, the fact they sent engineers down to Chuck Cook’s intersection for three months to program a single behavior. None of that sinks in when you believe in the religion of Tesla.
I bought my model Y in 2020
lmao, so absolutely didn’t have FSD longer than me. Delightful. Hysterical and delightful.
FSD was released in late 2020 yet you’re claiming you bought and used it in 2018? Who’s the liar now?
Also how can you have so much time to write your long winded rants about Musk, but can’t be bothered to actually discuss the technology nor provide a single shred of evidence backing up a single one of your claims?
I genuinely feel like I’m losing my mind here. Maybe that was your entire goal. Maybe its that you’re not listening and just like projecting your own opinions. I don’t know who or what hurt you or why you’re so angry but I’m done here. I’ve asked repeatedly for any sort of evidence as to why you feel this way, why you think FSD behaves this way and instead of providing anything you just escalate it and now we’re at name calling and calling me a liar. This is far from being a productive conversation. There’s so much to unpack here in this… whatever this is… you just posted I just really don’t … I can’t spend any more energy on it.
They are for sure not balanced. Alfred might have become more realistic about Elon and his bullshit for guarantee he would never get his roadster. That doesn’t mean he’s balanced.
Honestly the quality of journalism in this article is pretty low. Some of the points are valid but most are just nitpicks about little opinion pieces at the ends of the articles. I don’t find these particularly valuable, and they sometimes contain some bad takes as pointed out here, but that’s not an issue of factual reporting. So the worst they’ve identified is a few minor omissions which, sure, but if you write thousands of articles that’s going to happen.
And by the way, this article is making the case that Electrek is deliberately biased towards Tesla, not away from them. So if anything it undermines your point.
I think the scandal about car referrals was pretty suspicious, but again, when you look at their reporting it comes down as pretty balanced. Perhaps you could argue they talk too much about Tesla but they cover the good and the bad. And I would say almost everyone in America has been talking about Tesla too much for quite some time.
Electrek has a long history of anti tesla clickbait. Take this with a grain of salt.
Teslas are factory equipped with a 360 degree dashcam yet we never see any footage of these alleged incidents.
Are you kidding me? Youtube is full of Tesla FSD/Autopilot doing batshit crazy things.
so can you provide a link of an accident caused by FSD?
Musk just did a 20 minute video that ended with it trying to drive into traffic.
this one? Where does it drive into traffic? https://youtu.be/aqsiWCLJ1ms?si=D9hbZtbC-XwtxjpX
The video ended when he made an “intervention” at a red light. I’m not watching whatever link that is because I’m not a masochist.
Here’s the specific timestamp of the incident you mentioned in case you wanted to actually see it: https://youtu.be/aqsiWCLJ1ms?t=1190 The car wanted to move through the intersection on a green left turn arrow. I’ve seen a lot of human drivers do the same. In any case, its fixed now and never was part of any public release.
The video didn’t end there, it was near the middle. What you’re referring to is a regression specifically with the HW3 model S that failed to recognize one of the red lights. Now I’m sure that sounds like a huge deal, but here’s the thing…
This was a demo of a very early alpha release of FSD 12 (current public release 11.4.7) representing a completely new and more efficient method of utilizing the neural network for driving and has already been fixed. It is not released to anyone outside of a select few Tesla employees. Other than that it performed flawlessly for over 40 minutes in a live demo.
I get that this is an alpha, but the problem with full self driving is that’s way worse than what users want. If chatgpt gave you perfect information for 40 minutes (it doesn’t) and then huge lies once, we’d be using it everywhere. You can validate the lies.
With FSD, that threshold means a lot of people would have terrible accidents. No amount of perfect driving outside of that window would make you feel very happy.
You realize that FSD is not an LLM, right?
If its “Way Worse” then where are all the accidents? All teslas have 360 dashcams. Where are all the accidents?!
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/aqsiWCLJ1ms?si=D9hbZtbC-XwtxjpX
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
One of many many examples: https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-stops-tunnel-pileup-accidents-driver-says-fsd-enabled-video-2023-1?international=true
Tesla has a huge problem with phantom breaks.
See my huge post about that very accident right below. Do you have any other “Many many examples”?
Here is more: https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-fsd-autopilot-crashes-investigations/
How many do you want?
ffs that is the exact same article again. Please read my other comment (the huge one) let me know if anything doesn’t make sense or you find anything factually inaccurate.
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Wishful thinking that Tesla would publicly distribute footage of an accident caused by one of their cars…
Its saved on to a thumb drive. any user can pull off and use or post the footage anywhere. It never gets uploaded to tesla, only snapshots and telemetry.
lol the anti tesla crew will downvote even the most basic facts.
But is it technically the user’s data, or is there some clause in Tesla car ownership that says it is Tesla the company’s data?
Forgive me I’m ignorant of the fine details. I purchased a Chevy Bolt but had been looking into a Tesla as an alternative until Elon tried to be the super-cool Twitter guy.
It’s definitely the users data. There are a few tesla dashcam channels out there loaded with footage of other drivers acting like idiots.
Given your posts and rampant Tesla fanboyism, I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if you’re Elon himself just anxiously trying to save face.
Then again, Elon would just publicly sprout misinformation about it all so it probably isn’t. Still, surprising that people are just so obsessed with Tesla they can’t take the bad with the good.
all im asking for is some evidence of the bad. Nobody can provide it. It really shouldn’t be that hard.
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Please let me know where I stated anything inaccurate in the comment about the single incident that has been dug up in the 500k FSD cars and millions of miles traveled self-driving.
Also lets please keep this civil and not be name-calling. I hate Elon as much as anyone else and he deserves pretty much all the hate he gets. However it doesn’t change facts. Its not like he was responsible for writing even a single line of code in FSD or even designed or built any of the cars himself.
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Ah yes, there’s no readily available footage of the dead bodies flying into the street or being crushed under the wheels so it’s made up. Of course.
not all accidents are that violent. I would even accept a simple fender bender. Those should be pretty common if FSD is dangerous as a lot of people are implying, right?
Look man, I don’t like children either but wanting more child mowing cars out on the road is pretty twisted.
Bud, we’ve seen literally thousands of videos of this happening, even from the Tesla simps. You’re seven years behind on your talking points.
FSD has only been out for less than 3 years.
The first public release was much later than the smaller beta, which I had access to. And my reference to seven years was Josh Brown being killed by autopilot in 2016.
Can you link a few? Something where FSD directly or indirectly causes an accident?
You’re working very hard in this thread to remain in the dark. You could take two seconds to look for yourself, but it seems like you won’t. Hell, they performed a recall because it was driving through stops. Something it’ll still do, of course, but they performed a recall.
Elon literally had to hit the brakes manually in a Livestream of the self driving tech as the car was going to go strait through a red light. Like less than a week ago… SOOOO safe, all the news stories of it killing people are fake!
Can you link to even a single news article about a death involving FSD?
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a44185487/report-tesla-autopilot-crashes-since-2019/
That was the top google result with a ton of other articles. I’m sure that somehow doesn’t qualify and you’ll move the goalpost in response. Go read some Qanon Elon jizrag news. That’s where the real facts are.
And that’s an article about Autopilot which is a completely separate system. For someone with such strong opinions, you sure seem to lack even a basic understanding of the technology that you’re discussing here, but I’m sure you’ll just pull out more insults and keep making references to your current obsession, Musk, as if that makes your argument any more credible or factual.
The early alpha build not part of public release? That video? The one with the known regression in the model S?
That video was a demo of the new FSD beta 12 software, which is the first time a neural network was in complete control of the car, resulting in a massive reduction in code and overall smoothness. Did I mention the part where it was unreleased to the public? Maybe there’s a reason for that?
Other than that the car performed flawlessly in the entire 40 minute drive.
The recall was most definitely not for “driving through stops”. It was to fix the behavior of doing a “rolling stop”, which is something 99.5% of drivers do, which is how it learned to do that. Where do you see that it still does not make a complete stop at stop signs?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2022/02/01/feds-make-tesla-remove-rolling-stops-its-a-terrible-decision/?sh=67b344722111
I’m not trying to remain in the dark here, I’m just presenting facts. I’m very open to change my mind on this situation entirely just give me the facts. You said there were thousands of these videos I’m just asking for evidence. I just get downvoted and nobody posts any of the evidence.
Im an AI professional and have been an FSD beta tester for almost 3 years with tens of thousands of miles logged. How can I possibly be the one “in the dark” here?
Or put another way by someone not desperate for Elon’s attention, not stopping. Driving through stops.
Signs, lights, it’ll gladly not stop for any of them. Where do I see it? Real life. Actually owning one of these foolish gadgets for 5 years. Where do you see your examples?
Also, don’t send me brad templeton opinion pieces, he’s a complete hack and has outed himself as such many times. He does have a nice video explaining what he thinks of Tesla stans like you though. Did you watch that one, or do you only link his material when it’s convenient?
No you aren’t, you’re presenting a curated social media marketing campaign. Congrats, you fell for the ad. Do you think that beer is going to make you more attractive, too?
Ok. Tell us what evidence it would take for you to completely change your mind on this and realize Elon is a hack, running a dangerous con with low quality software being released to cars in the US and Canada? What evidence would you require to change your mind and accept that Tesla doesn’t properly test releases before they go out to customers?
This has absolutely zero bearing on anything except that you’re probably extremely susceptible to Elon’s outright lies.
Doubt.
The term is “delusion”.
Lets not resort to name calling or personal attacks here. You stated there are “Thousands of videos” of FSD related accidents, I only asked for a few examples. Please tell me where it is you’re getting this information. Help me change my mind.
Do you understand what a “rolling stop” is? It is when you don’t come to a complete stop at a stop sign, you slow down to 0.5 or 1mph, check both ways and move through. This has been studied time and time again that practically NOBODY on the road comes to a full and complete stop at stop signs. That is how the FSD beta was working in earlier releases because thats how it learned to drive. NHTSA said they had to come to a complete stop so Tesla fixed it. You again said that Teslas were still rolling through stop signs and I’m once again asking where you got that information?
“Actually owning one of these foolish gadgets for 5 years” I’m guessing you’re trying to say you own a Tesla? You clearly don’t have FSD because if you did you’d know that it makes full stops 100% of the time. I certainly have doubts you actually do own a tesla because if someone spends 40-60 grand on something they consider a “Foolish Gadget” why on earth would they hold on to it for so long? Just sell it and get something else, move on with your life and don’t bash people who like their cars.
I’ve asked you, now 3 times now to present evidence. Video evidence of FSD doing dangerous things. Given that all teslas have 360 dashcams that are constantly recording and we live in an age of such ease of video sharing that really shouldn’t be a big ask if FSD is as dangerous as you’re implying. These incidents should be happening daily. That is what would change my mind. What would change your mind?
I bought my model Y in 2020 with FSD and emailed tesla for early beta access based on my engineering experience and the part of the country I’m located in. They granted it almost a year later and I’ve been driving with it almost every day since. Why on earth would you doubt that? Do you need some kind of evidence?
I sure do. I got pulled over for doing one. Because they’re not legal.
Correct. They’re not. And thats why there was a recall and that’s why FSD no longer does them.
If you’re going to be a liar, I’m going to call you one.
Someone has already provided you samples and you contorted yourself trying to deny their existence still. That shows the caliber of person you are.
Do you understand what a red light and a stop sign are? See, traffic control devices are to be obeyed properly, and creating software that intentionally breaks the law is irresponsible at best. Only a clown would attempt to defend this. Meanwhile, you’re ignoring Elon’s own video from a week ago because it instantly disproves your insane position.
I did. I learned my lesson and am a proud one-and-done former tesla owner.
I did. Swing and a miss.
Except, you know, the fucking recall proves it didn’t. And it still doesn’t after the recall. And of course, it misses traffic control devices frequently, ignores them at speed, attempts to pull through them when stopped, etc. Please, do yourself a favor and end this now. Lying to me isn’t going to work.
2018 P3D with performance package. More like 70+, with EAP from the factory, and the $2k FSD upgrade when Elon was busy being an idiot about pricing. If you have any questions for someone that’s actually owned one, I’d be glad to answer them for you.
Waiting for my replacement.
I didn’t. I bashed you for being a liar.
I asked what evidence would change your mind, and I see you entirely dodged that question. Because there is none. There’s nothing that would change your mind, because your mind is made up. It’s religion, and you don’t convince someone their religion is nonsense. I’m not surprised, of course. All liars behave like this- they pretend there’s something that could completely shift their world view, and change a core piece of their identity… like simping for Musk. But deep down, they know. There’s no such evidence. The racism, the sexual assaults, the financial grift, the hard right bullshit, the transphobia and homophobia, none of that changes your mind. The untested nature of AP and FSD, the release of “smart” summon that immediately started crashing into things, the fact they sent engineers down to Chuck Cook’s intersection for three months to program a single behavior. None of that sinks in when you believe in the religion of Tesla.
lmao, so absolutely didn’t have FSD longer than me. Delightful. Hysterical and delightful.
FSD was released in late 2020 yet you’re claiming you bought and used it in 2018? Who’s the liar now?
Also how can you have so much time to write your long winded rants about Musk, but can’t be bothered to actually discuss the technology nor provide a single shred of evidence backing up a single one of your claims?
I genuinely feel like I’m losing my mind here. Maybe that was your entire goal. Maybe its that you’re not listening and just like projecting your own opinions. I don’t know who or what hurt you or why you’re so angry but I’m done here. I’ve asked repeatedly for any sort of evidence as to why you feel this way, why you think FSD behaves this way and instead of providing anything you just escalate it and now we’re at name calling and calling me a liar. This is far from being a productive conversation. There’s so much to unpack here in this… whatever this is… you just posted I just really don’t … I can’t spend any more energy on it.
Hilariously I’ve also seen them accused of a pro-Tesla bias. Personally I think they are pretty balanced.
They are for sure not balanced. Alfred might have become more realistic about Elon and his bullshit for guarantee he would never get his roadster. That doesn’t mean he’s balanced.
They do whatever gets them clicks. Facts do not matter.
And this opinion is based on what?
https://www.thedrive.com/article/21456/the-dangerous-difference-between-electrek-journalism-and-truth
Honestly the quality of journalism in this article is pretty low. Some of the points are valid but most are just nitpicks about little opinion pieces at the ends of the articles. I don’t find these particularly valuable, and they sometimes contain some bad takes as pointed out here, but that’s not an issue of factual reporting. So the worst they’ve identified is a few minor omissions which, sure, but if you write thousands of articles that’s going to happen.
And by the way, this article is making the case that Electrek is deliberately biased towards Tesla, not away from them. So if anything it undermines your point.
I think the scandal about car referrals was pretty suspicious, but again, when you look at their reporting it comes down as pretty balanced. Perhaps you could argue they talk too much about Tesla but they cover the good and the bad. And I would say almost everyone in America has been talking about Tesla too much for quite some time.