Is this the guy who makes alt right comics?
Edit: yeah, it’s George Alexopoulos. They’re a good artist, but they’re pretty nasty. I wouldn’t post their stuff.
Idk, I find his comics to be the quintessential example of “so bad it’s good”. By some great cosmic irony, nobody can satirize his views better than he can.
It’s hard to look away from a train wreck; I don’t blame you for looking. But perhaps it’s better to avoid that type of behavior, altogether.
This is an edit, original had the bible
“They’re the same picture”
oh no
I’ve seen a few great Linux memes with this, but I think the biggest insult would be for people to use it as a template for things he doesn’t believe in.
Mockery is the sincerest form of insult. I hope this meme lasts forever.
I never knew why people need to conflate the personality or political opinions of the artist with the art they make.
In my opinion, even if the artist is a terrible human being they can still produce some good art. And even if the art they produce is crap, it can still prove valuable, as it can be parodied, modified, transformed or mocked.
Are you ignoring the fact that the artist in question specifically makes anti-left propoganda? Like it’s literally their entire identity to try (and fail) to make fun of leftist politics
Yes, I am. Depending on whom you base your ideas on what art is you can defend the case that art has two main components - its conceptual (the political or other ideas of the artist) and its perceptual part (the craftsmanship).
In this case the conceptual part of the work is completely removed, leaving only the craftsmanship. I see no problem in sharing this, and I see no possible slippery slope here.
In short, just because someone is a fascist does not mean they can’t be a good craftsman, and should not be seen and analyzed. Take for example Adolf Dassler’s Adidas.
Quite frankly, I would also love to see what the original cartoon looks like. Not because I would agree with it, but because I want to know how extreme rightwingers represent me (or us, I guess). I want to know how their propaganda looks like. And I personally believe we should all know and care about it, if we want to combat it successfully.
Are you deliberately trying to be incoherent?
You said:
I never knew why people need to conflate the personality or political opinions of the artist with the art they make
And I asked you if you are ignoring the fact that the arts intended purpose is political.
Now u r on some shit about the aesthetic qualities which has nothing to do with your original argument.
It’s not “conflation” when the thing is itself literally what people take it as.
Also! Op was just asking a question dude. They weren’t condemning the meme. Ya gotta chill
I suggest looking through his twitter feed (not saying you didn’t) and paying close attention to the depiction of (not/) favoured men/ women. Twitter links warning In this cartoon (twitter) you can see the unnecessary sexualisation, while this one shows the exact opposite (cuz political enemy and black, idk). Also: Usual depiction of Joe Biden, heavy incel vibes and a masterpiece in bigotry. Make of that what you will, but I think stripping all his influence out of his cartoons would be more work than actually drawing new ones.___
Well, art is political by its very nature. It is inherently filled with the views and beliefs of the artist, and it’s important to point out the dangerous ones so people are aware and to prevent a potential slippery slope to radicalization. Or to prevent moments like that time Smash Mouth unknowingly retweeted art from a famous lolicon artist.
As for the rest, I completely agree. One of the ways to deal with a shitty person is to take their propaganda and meme the shit out of it.
Well, art is political by its very nature
Is it though? I once made a little tree out of wires as a birthday present because trees grow. How was that political? A friend of mine did a digital portrait of one of her friends for fun, how was that political? A whole genre of art is: “I saw a beautiful sight in nature and wanted to paint it”. Nothing political about that. I mean, “Art for art’s sake” was a whole movement. If it’s political by nature, removing the politics would mean that it’s not art anymore. And some musicians refuse to tell people what their music is about because they believe that everyone should give it their own personal meaning. But, as I said, a lot of art has no “meaning” besides: this looks/sounds nice/calming/cool/energizing.
Yes, it stems from the beliefs and feelings of the artists, but if we extend the meaning of politics so far that someone painting a mountainside transfers a political message, the term becomes pretty unusable.
what is beautiful is political. Valuing art based on beauty is political. Maybe your friend is ugly. Maybe they are not, and that’s why the portrait was done.
The act of creating is expressing power, and the expression of power and choices about who and what is valued is the core of “political.”
It isn’t always a clear cut thing, sometimes it’s a deeper philosophical idea and much less on the surface.
Maybe “political” is too far and “a collection of choices that reflect and potentially propagate culture or societal beliefs.” Is better.
Being able to make a choice is power. However small. And politics is all about power. Art is all about choices.
I mean, sure, but that absolutely devalues the meaning of the word. Absolutely every single thing you do is preceeded by a choice to do that, and choices are reflective of ones inner self, and if making a choice is power, and politics is all about power, then every single thing you do is political. Waking up before sunrise is political, waking up later is political, saying hello to your neighbour is political. Recording a guitar riff that just sounds cool is political. I created croissants yesterday, that was political.
Words are created to be used, and “political” cannot be used in any meaningful way if it refers to everything. While you probably could soundly argue that a child drawing random lines with crayons is political, it’s really pointless since it’s just pedantry that doesn’t add value, but rather devalues the word.
I did agree that using that word is probably going to far. I was merely trying to elaborate on the sentiment you were rejecting.
A slippery slope is a fallacy
Not weighing in on the other stuff, but I would disagree with the statement that art is political by its very nature. I think it really depends on the art.
Okay but tbf the arch wiki is probably the only source of online documentation that is actually up to date lol.
I abuse it for literally every stupid corner case on any distro
Gentoo wiki is sometimes better for non-systemd stuff tho.
Cause literally everything is in the wiki, written out very simply. Rewriting that in a chat and email would be counter productive.
It’s the same shit as working tech support, no one EVER reads manuals or does standard troubleshooting, they instantly jump to asking people for help which forces them to just read out the manual and troubleshooting steps first instead of actually helping those who need help…
If people could learn to take care of the fundamentals themselves and only ask for help when actually needed, everyone would be better off.
I’m too much of an internet introvert to ask people my problems, I just spend 1h debugging and reading the wiki
You clearly have never worked a customer service job in your life. That’s never going to happen. The more popular Linux gets the more this will occur. I’ve literally had to hand hold people setting up their first iPhone. It doesn’t get simpler than that.
As a fellow ex-help desk guy :tm:. I just want to say that A) I feel you but also B) the very fact that you know no one reads manuals should be an indication that expecting them to is a flaw. Instead most people generally do better with hands on coaching. Idk about your job, but back when I was working help desk I got way better results when I let people just be people and patiently guided them through the steps. Most of them catch on eventually
I hate that, because when i call tech support i have to listen to them walk me through the basic steps before i get to the parts i need. I try telling them I’ve already worked through basic troubleshooting, but most of them are reading a script for every idiot that calls.
It’s sort of a tragedy of the commons sadly, it’s more effective to just treat everyone like a User than to gamble on people actually knowing what they’re doing.
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don’t even need that, i’ve interacted with several companies that use a simple chatbot with pre-programmed responses and honestly? It’s pretty nice and doesn’t feel like bullshit.
Biggest issue is probably that people tend to forget it’s not a human, and ask it 10 run-on questions which makes the software cry.
They have to specifically tell you to ask one question at a time and use as few words as possible…
As a noob to Linux: THERE’S A WIKI? Awesome!
As a mechanic: Everything I deal with comes with an instruction manual that has the steps written out simply… for a mechanic.
If I didn’t ask the simple questions when I first started, despite having the manual available, never would have learned the basics from someone who knows.
I’m not trying to sound combative or anything, just that sometimes a person needs a small stepping stone of an answer to progress.
Hopefully /s
I’ve been bitter enough to copy and paste it into a chatbox.
I get your sentiment on people skipping the reasearch part and jumping to asking help but I wouldn’t say everything is documented tho. Although for the few problems that I did have arch documentation was pretty nice. I myself have an bluetooth bug that I eventually gave up as I couldn’t find a fix to it, that’s the only post I made with this account if u want to look it up. With things constantly changing and the infinite possibilities of config, there will always be some unknown bugs or issues that no documentation can cover.
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Ok brb putting a bunch of shit into that wiki to build my botnet
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"hello fellow linux users, I’m having a problem
“you fucking noob, go to the fucking wiki”
lol! this was primarily the reason why i went with endeavourOS. I actually installed arch linux on my laptop later by using archinstall which made the process a whole lot easier, but of course these elitists come out and claim that’s not the “real” way to install arch 🙄
those people suck. some people enjoy the pain i guess but shitting on others is dumb. Arch is pretty great but the fan base is insufferable. I use arch btw.
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It’s funny because it’s a good suggestion…
I was just getting into Linux desktop development. I asked one question regarding getting the position of a mouse on some Ubuntu developer forum. The response drove me away from developing for Linux and I never returned.
You perhaps could not have known it at that time, but development questions are almost always out of place with a distribution forum. Qt or GTK documentation would probably have been a better stop.
I
lovehate it when it’s a fairly simple issue and the op gets everything but the answer because people just want to talk shit.“Just Google it!”
Proceeds to Google the issue, top result is the same thread.
Unlike the wacky original this edit is too real.
what was the original?
Basically the atheist dad yelling and screaming at his daughter for not being gay and not wanting to have abortions. Typical fundie Christians projecting their inner most thoughts and darkest desires onto their opponents thinking.
This hugely diminish how crazy and nonsensical the original was.
This edit had a the order of the panels changed. In the original, the dad burst out screaming “mom found this on your room.” Cue, a shot of the Bible. The girl screams : “god bless you, dad” and in the last panel where she’s running away her dad screams at her to have an abortion like a good atheist.
Wait, you haven’t had an abortion yet?? Sorry pal, no atheist card for you
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Ay thanks
new to Linux
arch
Funnily enough with how popular and broad the wiki has gotten some people are just searching “[problem statement] linux” and having the top results be arch wiki links so the idea of an arch manual being handed to someone new isn’t that far off
I once solved a problem with my hackintosh thanks to arch wiki.
Honestly I’ve always been a Debian based guy but thought I would try Manjaro to see how an Arch based desktop would work.
First distro I’ve ever run that worked absolutely, completely 100% out of the box and I’ve been a Linux desktop user for over 20 years. No proprietary drivers, graphics or networking issues, literally 10 minute setup. I would recommend it to a beginner for sure.
If you are new and need help you can ask in the newbie corner. Most people are really helpful there even with the most trivial problem. Well you can also use it if you are more experienced, it is a nice place to get help and participate.
In other forums you are expected to have done some research first though, e.g. checked the wiki and maybe the bug tracker first and provide your relevant logs. That’s what might get you in this comics situation though.
That’s one based neck beard
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I’m just thinking about the scene in Hackers where they are sharing their books. Wasn’t the “ugly red book that doesn’t fit on a desk” the unix manual? 🤣
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Erased some text for meming. Enjoy.
Here’s the clean template: https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/2730869 (idk how to link to lemmy posts properly)
Their wiki is amazing but if I had to be a part of the Arch community to use the distro, I would give it a hard pass. They’re toxic AF.
Eh, the toxic ones are just the loudest, the same applies anywhere else too.
I DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN!!
-Mandrake Linux. (Is that distro even still around?)
my first linux distro. I got it from a german magazine which came with 6 cds of it.
It turn into mandriva when mandrake bought conectiva. Mandriva. The last version was launched in 2011, and the company closed in 2015. Their most prominent derivatives were Open Mandriva, Mageia, PC Linux, and Rosalinux.
Mageia was founded with most of the developers from mandriva (or so Wikipedia says)
I understand your point but if you end up on their forum through searches, it’s pretty clear that the majority of participants are the loud ones, making it irrelevant how many quiet ones aren’t participating. You’re just reading a topic between someone needing help and a group of people trolling them because they can.
I’ve been using arch for 2 years and I’ve been regularly using the forum to troubleshoot issues. The vast majority of posts, at least from what I have seen and experienced were just of people trying to troubleshoot the issue, asking for command outputs, providing suggestions or just wiki links to people who have missed things in the installation or forum links if the issue was solved previously. Sure there might have been some toxicity in some threads, but that’s bound to happen in an open forum.
Maybe I’m super lucky but that’s my experience with the platform. Most of the toxicity I’ve encountered on the internet when it comes to arch and Linux in general was on reddit and lemmy, where people just try to push other distros down and make their own look superior.
The solution I’ve sort-of found is to go to communities of Arch-based systems instead of Arch itself. The same solution should work in most cases*, and the communities are more newbie-friendly.
*Depends on how close to Arch the distro is in this aspect/subsystem. The Manjaro community is probably less likely to offer AUR based solutions, since the AUR can be unreliable/unsafe on Manjaro.
