- cross-posted to:
- technews@radiation.party
- cross-posted to:
- technews@radiation.party
You must log in or register to comment.
Relegated? The iPhone has always had USB 2.0 speeds…
That has been trash for pretty much a decade at this point
2 decades. Their previous proprietary monster was just as bad.
Lately the base model is usually last year’s old pro processors and micro controllers. Next year the base 16 will probably have the faster IO if the trend continues.
Exactly. And the usb controller is built into the chip.
I suspect next year’s base will have a revised version of this year’s processor. The iPhone 15 Pro has an A17 Pro. This is the first A Series chip with a “Pro” label. I don’t expect something “Pro” to make it into the base model.
What will change between the A17 Pro and the A17? Who knows. It might include the upgraded USB controller though.
This is Apple at it again, do bare minimum and charge premium. They left USB2 because it required no work, but they had to put type C because EU regulation. Since USB is backwards compatible, solution is just solder half of the connector, charge premium price and fuck you customers. And they are right, people don’t care. Instead they go defending it like “I don’t need it anyway”, “Am not a pro, I don’t need it”, etc.
Ah, yes last year. Usb 2.0 was invented in, like what, 2001? A shitty phone cpu from 2 years ago is probably at least as powerful as the pentium 4 I had back in the day. Come the fuck on.
Even USB3 is 15 years old already.
so very apple to punish it’s own users because they have too many old components they need to use up, but if you’re paying for PRO you get actual 2023 modern USB.
so very, very apple.
Bro what modern it’s USB 3.0 lmao
USB 3.0 is already 15 years old.
the adaptor is usb3, the controller interface limits you to usb 2.0 speed. what part of the article was hard to comprehend?
Connector is USB type C, controller inside of it supports USB up to version 2. With USB you have different connectors but all of them are backwards compatible. So yes, Apple put outdated chip in the phone on regular versions so you get only USB 2.0 speeds. Type C is obviously capable of much more than USB 2, power delivery included… which is the part of OP statement. You get modern connector with outdated interface. Next year they will just trickle down Pro hardware to regular phones and call it “upgrade”. That’s what Apple does.
What part of their comment was hard to comprehend?
They’re just saying even the usb 3.0 in the pro model is not modern.
One last little ‘f you for making us do this’
Whatever, still better than lightning.
they don’t care because apple punishes the poors at every opportunity anyway. soldered on ram & ssd’s on their laptops for fucks sake
Apple’s not the only one with soldered on components.
dunno why you’re downvoted, you’re completely correct.
BUT
Apple is the only one charging eye-watering prices for the privilege. Yeah, there is that lol.
Agreed on the cost.
Apple blazed the trail though, really pushed the idea that saving a millimeter by going to glued/soldered on components is a good idea
Apple wasn’t the first to solder components onto the motherboard.
It’s to heat up the computer better!
It’s funny (or sad I guess) that the current generation of laptops are back on mag chargers (I forget what they’re called) instead of USB C. There was never a time when both iPhones and MacBooks used USB C charging.
you can use either the magsafe or USB-C PD, both works
Sorry, should’ve clarified I meant the one that came with it in the box
The cable that comes in the box is MagSafe, but the power brick is usb-c
Sorry, should’ve clarified I meant the end of the cord that comes in the box that you’re meant to plug into the laptop
I don’t have one, but I thought the user could either do magsafe or a usb-c to a laptop, either way will charge.
Haven’t used that charger since day 1 of receiving my work MBP M1. I just plug it into a Thunderbolt dock that supports usb-pd
This is why companies like Apple are malicious.
More like standard capitalism. The usb c connectors are not slower then the lightning connectors so its not like they made it worse. They simply refused to make it better.
A bit like Nvidia continuing to maken better gpu chips but refusing to have them release with a more VRAM.
If course in a way, all for profit-companies are malicious. Extracting surplus value from workers and such.
So - in your opinion - any company shipping a USB 2 device is ‘malicious’?
Apple was forced by the EU to stop using their old and worse connector
So they’re complying, but they’re purposefully limiting the less expensive phone as a malicious compliance to that
Pretty simple really
So lightning cables offer transfer rates of 480Mb/s - USB 2.0 offers 625Mb/s. You are cross that they swapped out Lightning for USB on the main models and use USB 3 as a differentiator in the Pro models. Fair enough, but that’s not ‘malicious’. It’s not even malicious compliance.
USB 2.0 is also 480Mbps.
Lightning connectors are definitely worse than USB-C, but when they were introduced the alternative was micro USB which is objectively worse than Lightning cables.
Of course, with wireless charging I haven’t used an actual cable in five years so it doesn’t matter that much to me.
You obviously don’t get the point. Educate yourself on Apple and USB-C, please.
You mean the Apple that provided more than 20% of the engineering force that developed USBC?
Or the Apple that released the first USBC laptop to market?
That Apple?
Or the apple that fought against USB-C for their phones since basically forever and now implemented it with USB 2? Yes, this one.
It doesn’t sound like you actually have a rebuttal.
If the aim of a company is to maximize profits then every company in Apple’s stead would do the same thing.
I love how these articles happen and are posted and everyone flames at apple.
This isn’t that different than the Galaxy note 20 not having ultra wide band but the Ultra version does.
All companies do this, otherwise why have different tiers or different models.
Don’t get me wrong, I am thrilled they are finally using USB-C. I enjoyed the lightning when if first came out. The only cord at the time you could plug in and there was no up or down, it just want in no matter what orientation. Apple just wanted to charge everyone to use it and they screwed up with that. Now there is a full standard for every device, this is good.
Apple fan boys and Android fan boys need to chill out. It’s just a phone, not an allegiance.
I didn’t know what ultra wide band was because i never heard of it and…wow! Are you seriously comparing a very high tech stuff that only started to being added to high-end smartphones since 2019 (i still don’t know what it’s for) to apple forcefully crippling the speed of usb to what it was more than 10 years ago ? That’s whack ! I can’t even start to understand your thoughts process. Other famous company did something that can be considered similar if you tilt your head hard enough ( to stop blood from flowing to the brain that is ) so you see ? the company i love isn’t fucking me sideways like y’all are saying. WTF !??
It seems to be that you are misunderstanding the entire tech concept. There is no “downgrading” the A16 chip from last year’s pro model is the USB controller. They simply aren’t upgrading that chip. It seems that you didn’t read the article and thus didn’t know the processors for the phone are what are controlling the USB. There is no “forcefully crippling the speed of usb” its a simple matter of taking last years top tier chip and putting it in the Second tier phone this year. This is how tech works. You don’t redesign all your products, you redesign the top tier and then move those advancements down the chain next year.
The comparison was not about a cable vs wifi. It was about the chip on the device as that is the crux of the situation and the pointed out almost at the top of the article.
No need to be rude or insulting with the blood flowing to the brain comment. Again this seems to be fan boy attitude to shit on “the other side” and be insulting to win the argument. I have no stake in this other than pointing out that people are freaking out and getting upset because they didn’t redesign the phone and architecture for $X to increase the speed of something almost no IOS user even uses.
An honest question, do you actually use your cord the transfer data from your phone or tablet? Personally I never use the cord on my Galaxy Tab, It easier to use Wi-Fi and a shared folder on my NAS.
the A16 chip from last year’s pro model is the USB controller. They simply aren’t upgrading that chip.
Glad to know the chip from thei last year flagship phone can only handle a tech that’s more than 10 years olders. Truly a marvel of technology.
No need to be rude or insulting with the blood flowing to the brain comment.
Sorry, went overboard there. I had a shitty day and i had discussion with a friend that defended apple like his life depended on it and just dropped the “you just can’t afford it argument”. That plus, my hate toward apple for being the origin of every shitty decision on the phone market like no replaceable battery ,no earphones with the phone, forcing Bluetooth earphones…etc
An honest question, do you actually use your cord the transfer data from your phone or tablet? Personally I never use the cord on my Galaxy Tab, It easier to use Wi-Fi and a shared folder on my NAS.
Absolutely. Everyone i know does.
Ahh. Totally understand that kind of day man. Truly I do and what an ASS for making that kind of comment. That can not be defended in any way. Sorry that kind of crap got dumped on you today.
Yeah the lightning cable only having USB2 speeds sucked since it was never upgraded.
I completely agree with your assessment of the “innovations”. I remember the conference they got ride of the 3.5 mm headphone Jack and they said “the courage” to do something bold. Bwahahaha. It just means everyone needed to buy an adapter for the accessories.
In terms of using the cord I guess I am the minority then. Sorry for assuming the other way around.
In terms of using the cord I guess I am the minority
I think you’re probably in the majority, just maybe not people you run into on Lemmy.
I personally don’t have any family members who ever transfer data with a cable from their phone that I know of. Even at work, I would say only a minority do (although the age demographic is skewed older, so just understanding the phone itself is a big deal).
Also if you google number of people who use physical connectors to backup data, you get a flood of results asking if it’s even possible lol
Understandable.
This isn’t that different than the Galaxy note 20 not having ultra wide band but the Ultra version does.
Are we considering that UWB is as prominent as USB and you’ll be using it almost daily with a multitude of devices?
No, that’s a fair point. The Ultra Wide Band is not the same in terms of use and known like USB is. My comparison was meant to be of the chips on the phone. People are arguing that apple is “downgrading” to USB 2.0 but in reality they just aren’t upgrading the A16 chip that is the USB controller. This is similar to the Galaxy Note 20 not having the upgraded chip like the Galaxy Note 20 Ultra. There may be other comparisons that would be more accurate but I remembered this one specifically when I was looking to upgrade Galaxy.
I don’t think it’s fair to compare UWB and USB 2.
One is already an old ass standard. I don’t even know what devices aren’t USB 3 anymore. You actively have to go out of your way to be a dick and downgrade your phone to USB 2.0
Not to mention the price difference is literally negligible.
Apple is just being assholes here. They already downgrade the non pro by removing cameras and whatnot. Touching the USB speed is a special kind of fuck you.
The processor in de iPhone 15 doesn’t support 3.0 speeds. The one in de pro (different proc) does. The cable of the pro doesn’t support 3.0 speeds. But neither do the cables that come with other brand phones.
Companies are dicks. Or something…
At apple scale I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that giving everyone the USB 3 chip would reduce overall cost, or that apple is doing the crippling in software or firmware.
USB 3 actually has flaws that make some devices functionally useless with USB 3 devices around.
USB 3 notoriously emits noise in the 2.4ghz radio spectrum, requiring extra precautions and development cost in order to reduce the effect.
This is often why 2.4ghz mouse and keyboards specifically require USB 2.0 connections.
I’m not saying that’s why Apple did it, but it isn’t a solved problem in the least and USB isn’t just a no-thought upgrade.
I agree the comparison between the two in terms of use is not correct or fair even. It was more of a comparison of the chips being included on the phone. I clearly did not do a good job explaining that. I assumed most people would have understood that the A17 pro chip is what is the upgrade and is the controller for the USB vs the A16 that is last years model.
In a computer the price may be negligible but in a phone is the entire architecture of the chip so its not negligible. I don’t think they are being assholes as much as not spending shit tons of money to redesign and manufacture new processors for the phone when they have old stock that can be used.
Its a similar model that a lot of companies do, take last years best chip and put it in this years second tier device. I am not saying its great for consumers I am just saying its what is done. Not upgrading a chip is not the same as downgrading it.
My Nothing Phone 1 is USB 2.0
UWB is 2019 technology which has a very very limited use and even more limited range. USB 2.0 predates iPhones by 4 years and USB3.0 is at this point 15 years old. You’ve been sold polished turd at premium prices and everyone is now stuck with their mouths full defending the move when it reality it’s last years pro hardware shoved into this year’s “new” device with USB type C hacked in to avoid EU ban.
This has nothing to do with when people last transferred files from their devices or what you like or what you think everyone else will need. This is the case of Apple selling you wheelbarrow at the price of a car and people saying it goes fast downhill and they never wanted to go uphill anyway.
Exactly I can’t remember the last time I transferred anything to my phone via a cable. Just nice to have one cord for charging.
Good thing you represent everyone in this case then.
It does feel kind of spiteful. But honestly, it is surprisingly difficult to find USB 3 USB-C cables anyway. Most of them are USB 2 unless you spring for Thunderbolt cables.
I swear I have a USB C cable that charges faster oriented one way. I haven’t really proved it or anything but it really does feel like it. Maybe I’m crazy. Is it possible? It’s “normal” USB on the other side.
You aren’t crazy, but barring any defects or damage this shouldn’t be happening
Welcome to the Android world where even top smartphones worth 300-400 $ only support USB 2.0
My cheap android phones have had usb3 for like 5 years =\
Most Androids still only get USB2.0, but not the ones that are in the price range of the iPhone.
Edit: Feels like I’m back on Reddit with people not reading my comment, I just said that although most units of Android phones are budget to mid-range, mine being a mid-range (Poco F3), Android phones anywhere near the range of an iPhone in Cost is USB 3.0+
Cheap as in 100 and less brand new? The third-party market can get you a usb3 type c port from a 2 year old phone at that price range. This is cheap to have. Apple is not doing it because it costs money, but it is a plus for them. They are doing it to push power users, who know enough about technical specs, to buy the more expensive product. The pro has USB 3, and even then, the charging speeds are 12 watt. They are trickling the upgrades ever slower now because the technological advances have slowed down. They are doing it to create hype and advertising the new stuff every year instead of drastically changing their product. It is planned absolesence from making certain parts weak on purpose.
I bought my oneplus 10 pro for sub $500 during a sale, and it has usb3.1. It’s last year’s model. You can get a pixel 6 with usb3.1 for less than $400. A Galaxy S21 has usb3.2, less than $500.
That’s almost every major android brand for $500 or less with 3.1 or better. The cheapest you can buy an iPhone 15, the one with usb2.0, is $800. What are you on about?
I don’t use data on the USB port very often and when I do it’s always to make an access point over USB so the USB2.0 bandwidth is enough for my use.
I wonder if people really have a use for USB3.
Apart from making phone more expensive, I don’t see a real need for me
Argument can be made if your camera doesn’t support 4k or 60fps, there’s very little need for higher speeds than USB2.0 since files generated won’t be as big. However if you keep using your phone as a camera to record long videos, then yes it’s annoying to have slower interface.
That’s a valid point.
Also is there’s a USB3 controller at all in the phone to connect the camera inside the phone? Or does the camera talk on a different bus on the SoC?
With Apple devices I honestly don’t know. With others SoC is the one exposing the rest of the hardware and acts are intermediate. Historically in general giving DMA access to any hardware on the system has proven fatal when it comes to security. You do gain speed, but expose so much in the process.
deleted by creator
My phone is 6 years old at this point, was only $350, and uses USB-C.
USB-C is a connector and, by itself, says nothing about the protocol in use. That’s the important part.
My Nothing Phone 1 is USB 2.0. I’ve never used it to transfer data
Really apple? And they did all that mother nature bullshit with octavia spencer while it was europe who forced them to use a universal connector and stop polluting the world with useless pathetic cables
The only people who need the USB 3 transfer speeds are going to be Pro users. For everyone else, it doesn’t matter.
What? Do you realize how insanely slow USB 2 is? Good luck transferring even a tiny ass video. I don’t think you need to be a pro user to want to transfer some media from your phone and not take all day…
Most people using Apple devices don’t transfer media via cord anymore. The average user only uses the cloud for those things.
I’ve had an iPhone for the last 10 years and can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve needed to use a cable instead of iCloud/Dropbox/other file share service.
Transfering video via cord is actually apples suggested way of sending full res videos to android phones because they’re too lazy and monopolous to adopt RCS.
RCS is also a google monopoly. Can’t call out Apple for being a monopoly without also applying the same standard to google. RCS is technically open, but in order to work they require googles servers.
I just send video over Dropbox if I want to share full res. But that is the first legitimate use I’ve seen.
What’s to stop apple from using their own servers in accordance with the published specs from the GSMA, the industry nonprofit that started and steers the project by committee? Im not putting it past google to be a monopoly either, but I can’t find any info that suggests apple is being shut out of doing it themselves. ATT has their own implementation away from googles RCS servers, or at least used to.
RCS is older than iMessage yet was still a total mess of compatibility just two years ago. E2EE isn’t part of the spec, but something Google tacked on to their implementation. Google has an abysmal track record for supporting chat services. So why should apple adapt to them again? Meanwhile Apple created a seamless experience for iPhone users and has been supporting it for a decade now.
This stuff transfers over WiFi quickly. I don’t think 99.9% of iPhone owners have even plugged a phone into a computer in the last 10 years.
I’ll go and shoot 30gb of photos and within a half hour of uploading them they’re synced to iCloud.
Shit, the only place I even plug my phone into now is my car because I was too dumb to wait a few months for the refresh that came with wireless CarPlay.
I use MagSafe at home for all of my charging, and airdrop/airplay for pretty much everything else that isn’t synced to iCloud.
Get yourself a wired to wireless CarPlay adapter.
I’ve thought about it. I haven’t decided how long I’m keeping this car though. The practical mind in me says keep it until the wheels fall off.
The enthusiast in me really wants a dark horse Mustang though lol.
They are like $60 though
And wired CarPlay works for me. Wireless would be nice but it’s not a necessity for me, especially given that that dongle would be useless to me if I do change cars here soon anyway.
I’ve looked around at the wireless CarPlay adapters, the consensus seems to be that to get one without any significant latency and operates as close to native wireless CarPlay, it’s gonna be in the $1-200 range too. That’s a decent amount for something I might only use for a few months.
Apple has been pushing users away from transferring data over cable for years anyway. Most users will sync files over wifi.
Annoying, as that should be the users choice, but I doubt the average iPhone user will even notice. Iirc the lightning connector was also limited to USB 2.0 speeds and only some particular power users ever complained about that.
It’s not that slow, how’d you think I transferred stuff off a CompactFlash card with raw files off my DSLR before USB 3.0? I’d regularly dump several GBs worth of files out after a shoot. It’d take a few minutes but it’s not the end of the world.
USB 2 can transfer 1 gigabyte in about 20 seconds
Why do Pro users need 3 transfer speeds?
Those giant high res videos can really hurt to transfer to your computer to edit.
If they use their phone for it’s internet connection and need to send large amounts of data, like after a photo shoot.
A $5 Pen drive transfers data faster. Some day, Apple will be able to figure how to do this in a multi hundred dollar phone. Need more MBAs.
The fact that the Pro (or any device) supports a newer USB protocol doesn’t necessarily mean that it will be able to take advantage of the full speed. It might just be as slow as the non Pro with USB 2.0.
iPhone 15 Pro tech specs page: “USB 3 (up to 10Gb/s)” with a footnote that says “USB 3 cable with 10Gb/s speed required.”
A regular need for high-speed data transfers are legitimately a pro use case. You need the Pro model and you need to buy a thick, stiff high-speed cable.
I’m pretty certain that the USB IF decided to use the max possible Gbps as the cable rating, rather than the mess that was
USB 3.0 USB 3.1 USB 3.1 (Gen 1) USB 3.1 (Gen 2) …
So it’s more likely apple are just being specific in the type of cable you need.
The pro can stream a 4k60 ProRes video to an external drive via the usbc port. Idk what kind of bandwidth that uses. But should give some clue as to the actual speed capable with the port.
Also, onboard storage is limited to 4k30 ProRes, possibly indicating the speed of built in storage.
Are they really this spiteful? Wow
So, how do you sell this to a regular user? We’re probably getting new phones in this round and I want the Pro but still trying to sell that choice. My kid’s Mom has never used the data connector so how can I sell her on that as one of the features she wants?
Note on our weird situation but we have two teens and our pattern is to buy new, and give our 2-4 year old phones to the kids. For this to work, we really need to have identical phone models
Guess you’ll have to change bubble colors.
I feel like not many people actually use the data port on their phones anymore, I know I haven’t used my android USB port for anything other than fast charging for I feel like 10 years. Do you even use the data connector on your phone?
I use it. I plug my phone into a dock and use it in desktop mode on occasion. I actually have an old phone running an FTP server with an external hard drive connected.
deleted by creator
