I am an Xer who manages a small but crucial team at my workplace (in an EU country). I had a lady resign last week, and I have another who may be about to resign or I may have to let go due to low engagement. They are both Gen Z. Today it hit me: the five years I’ve been managing this department, the only people I’ve lost have been from Gen Z. Clearly I do not know how to manage Gen Z so that they are happy working here. What can I do? I want them to be as happy as my Millennial team members. One detail that might matter is that my team is spread over three European cities.
Happy to provide any clarification if anyone wants it.
Edit. Thanks for all the answers even if a few of them are difficult to hear (and a few were oddly angry?) This has been very helpful for me, much more so than it probably would have been at the Old Place.
Also the second lady I mentioned who might quit or I might have to let go? She quit the day after I posted this giving a week’s notice yesterday. My team is fully supportive, but it’s going to be a rough couple of months.
Gen Z software engineer here. From what I can tell my generation doesn’t care that much about company loyalty and all of that jazz. That’s true for me as well. Companies have a soulless aspect to them. I can’t put my soul into that. If another place is willing to throw more money at me, I will take it. Sure, if my workplace is extra nice I will think twice about it, but most of the time it isn’t.
Then there’s the lack of investment in the younger folks on the part of the company. No mentorship programs, a lack of workshops, etc. Our input isn’t taken into account and is often overlooked. That’s not the right way to show young people that you care about them or their future. In turn they won’t care about you or your company’s future.
Also the fact that people tend to bring their politics to work is a big problem for me. This is especially true with the boomers in the company. They love to stroke their right-wing, often bigoted political opinions in front of us at work. Mostly in the form of complaining about whatever they saw today on Instagram or Facebook. Now this isn’t inherently a problem that can be brought up with HR, mostly because they do it in a subtle and veiled enough manner that there’s not much you can do about it. But I’d say that personal politics is another big factor for me. It makes me not care that much about the workplace/company as a whole.
Milenial here. I was taught to not care about company loyalty by my father, a boomer.
I’m as loyal to my company as they are to me.
If big boss is cranky that day, I might get fired. If I make A mistake I might get fired. I am payed as little as they think they can get away with. My benefits are the vert least they can give me.
They will do very very minimum they can. Make no investments in me that are not going to be immediately beneficial to them…
I get payed pretty well concidering everything. But I Know that I am just a name in a spreadsheet to these people. If I get in a car accident and can’t work for a few months, the company and management will not care. They will just be annoyed that they have to struggle to fill my shift.
Why in the world would I have any loyalty to an organization like that. Why would I have any loyalty to management like that.
Same here. My mother worked all her life at one place until she retired. She told me it’s not a good idea and to only care about myself, not the company.
You just gave me insight into why my company isn’t bleeding GenZ software engineers.
We have a 1-year program for people fresh from CS degrees or coding boot camps. They have an assigned cohort to build relationships and go through the program together. In it, they have mentors and meet with people across the company to learn more about the business. And while doing this they are fully integrated members of teams. I’m in Product and I know my team takes them seriously and listens to their input.
We also have a year-long program for anyone new in a manager role (either new to the company or promoted), we have a career coaching program people can sign up for, and it’s easy to get an assigned mentor (if you show any competence and interest).
And at least my networks don’t have any of the shit heads spouting politics. Politics rarely come up (except in a small vetted group of like-minded people).
I am approaching 9 years here, and when I took the job I fully expected to leave at 2. Instead, I’ve had five different roles or titles, I didn’t have to ask for 2 of the 3 promotions I’ve gotten, and my pay is almost 2.5x of my first job. I’m not loyal to the company, but I have a hell of a lot of loyalty to the people that make it up, and they’ve earned every bit of that.
Damn, are you guys hiring? I’m going back to school for this and looking for this exact sort of thing!
Yep! One of my devs was out at a college recruiting day just this week. I do believe living in the Kansas City area is a requirement though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Damn! If there are any remote positions, HMU. Your company sounds pretty great :)
We actually do hire lots of remote positions in general! Only the new software engineer program require being there. What kind of work do you do?
Damn, are you me? I’ve made recommendations to our teams, totally ignored. One year later, a more senior team member brings up the same recommendations and gets huge praise. My raises are like, maybe 4%, roughly $2-4000, if that.
No workshops. Some training, but not enough to really do much. Sometimes I feel like I shouldn’t even bother with the minimal training we do get, because I’ll probably move jobs before it’s useful / the senior guys are reaching their 60s, and I’m not sticking around when they retire and take all the knowledge with them.
And, as you said, one of my coworkers likes to air his grievances about LGBTQ people somehow making Ukraine an inside job while I uncomfortably try and work/be professional. I never talk about anything that could potentially raise tensions, and volunteer very little about myself so that they can’t start bad conversations in the first place.
Generations aren’t a monolith. It’s reductive to say “these people are leaving because they’re from a different generation.”
The best thing you can do is perform an exit interview and ask them why they decided to move on. If they’re good people they’ll give you an honest answer.
And remember, young people in the workforce now have had adults in their lives who were likely laid off during the 2008 financial crisis. Those adults were, correctly, teaching their children that companies are not loyal to their employees, so do not be loyal to your company.
They are probably leaving for more pay, better benefits, or a promotion of some kind. The only way you’ll know for certain is if you ask.
What do you mean by low engagement? Are they not doing their work in their given hours?
I’m a millennial but I imagine it’s the same issue.
Work isn’t something I want to do. It’s something I have to do to for money. If someone offers me more money I’m going to take it.
So first thing to check is are they just leaving for better pay. If so paying them more is basically your only option.
In my industry (software development) the average length at a job for younger people is two years because it’s the only way to get a decent pay rise in many cases.
The idea of loyalty to a company is dying a quick death.
If it’s not that the only to find out is to talk to them. Ask them if they’re willing to do an exit interview and see if there’s anything you can improve on.
Not a very big sample size, did you perform an exit interview? Why not just ask their thoughts on the way out?
Many won’t answer honestly and just make up a polite excuse. Still worth a try.
True. Even if you hate the job, it’s not worth potentially burning a bridge by being too honest
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I’m old, but do have to wonder if it’s part of the, “you need to change jobs to advance” mantra I hear a lot with the younger generations. Can they see a path in front of them advance?
Just pointing out that we didn’t invent that mantra for ourselves. I’ve heard that same thing incessantly from teachers and professors which were gen x and boomers over the years.
I think this makes things worse for everyone involved. I wish they would stop.
My company used to be all about company loyalty. Seeing people with 20-30 year in was normal. People with less than 5 were the odd ones. Now, things have change and it seemed to be a response to market. Something like, “the younger generations don’t like to stick in one place to long, they want to job hop, so we need to adapt and support that.”
I don’t know why they just wouldn’t make it attractive to stay. Sticking around means stability for the employee with no need to interview all the time. And for the company it means continuity, fewer training issues, stronger teams. There is so much upside. I don’t get it. I don’t think I ever will.
because retaining long-term employees is generally expensive, so companies do things to make sure job hopping is the only way to earn what you’re actually worth. this is 100% a response to companies own policies and not anything labor is doing.
If they have to pay more for these job hoppers, how is it more expensive?
Are they also ignoring the costs that go into training, knowledge drain, downtime due to those issues, etc? One seasoned employee, who is actually good, can have more value than an entire team of people with high turnover, at a fraction of the cost.
usually the savings are in benefits, and the expectations of raises. You’re also assuming they’re hiring from similarly qualified and experienced. They’re not. they’re hiring inexperienced people with lower qualifications… and frequently, the new people will be low balled as well.
And I’m not arguing that experience is valuable, but the large companies don’t see it that way. large corporations are quite literally only concerned about short term profits- the get rich quick schemes. they’re not not concerned at all about producing quality products over the long term, or developing healthy work environment sore anything else. strictly what yields the highest profits in that moment.
I always find it odd that the most successful investor of all time is a buy and hold value investor, yet the whole market is obsessed with short term bull shit. I guess buy and hold is too boring for these people to justify these big companies, news stations, and newspapers.
I wonder if the government can do anything there. Surely it is better for a country to have strong and stable business to prop it up, and provide good jobs to people that allow them to feed the economy.
Warren Buffett will buy and sell quickly if his investment meets or exceeds his targets. Berkshire Hathaway has a stock portfolio in the hundreds of billions of dollars.
What he won’t do is act without a plan. He has a unique ability to see long term advantages, that’s why he holds over the long term. Short term opportunity exists too, but many people who look for it are impatient.
I don’t know why they just wouldn’t make it attractive to stay.
I don’t get it. I don’t think I ever will.
Every single job I have left is because I literally couldn’t afford to stay. I know you want to pin the phenomena on some obscure difference in generational ideology. It’s not that difficult. It’s not that obscure. We grew up in places we will never afford. You come from a generation that could pay 100% for college with a summer job, and you turned around and added a requirement for a college degree just to get that summer job which now days doesn’t even cover the rent.
Pay has dropped relative to cost of living year over year since the 90s. I couldn’t get my employers to give me raises just to match inflation. And still, I hear boomers crowing about how uncommitted millennials and zoomers are from their half a million dollar homes. My gen x coworkers owned boats and I was struggling to make the rent.
The problem here is not that younger generations aren’t capable of committing, it’s that older generations have grown out of touch with modern day cost. Some boomer rear ended me last year and was furious that I wouldn’t take his $150. He laughed when I told him his insurance would give me $2k easily. They paid out $2800. I am honestly still confounded how far out of reality you’d have to be to think that a bumper would only cost $150. You could argue that he was only trying to cheat me but that only proves my point more that us getting royally fucked by older generations is not from our own doing.
I don’t come from a generation that could pay for college with a summer job. I had a summer job, and worked during the semesters as well, and it wasn’t enough to even touch the tuition costs.
I think the companies are an issue too. They should do more to keep workers, as it’s better for them in the short and long term, imo. I don’t know why they don’t. Workers also seem to be ok with job hoping, which I also don’t get.
For those co-workers who have boats, you likely don’t have the full picture of their finances. I have a co-worker with a boat, he’s had several. That co-worker once told me I live like a poor person and has often encouraged me to buy big stuff like that, but I don’t. When he broke up with his girlfriend, the truth started coming out. Every dime he was making every month was going right out the door. He was basically broke, and with loans on his house, 3 cars, 2 motorcycles, boat, etc his net worth was well below 0…. But it looks nice from the outside. Meanwhile, I live a more modest life. It doesn’t look like much, people apparently think I’m poor; put my life next to his and his life looks better… but I have a completely paid off home. It’s not worth half a million dollars, but it’s all mine. I’d rather have that than a boat and a life that only looked nice for people passing by. The best boats are friend’s boats. Trying to keep up with the Jones’ is a losing battle; you only see what they what you to see.
You also have to keep in mind where they’re at in life. Of course someone who’s been working for 20 years has a better shot of having a solid foundation built than someone who’s been working for 5 years. It takes time. I rented for 16 years before buying a home, but because I waited until I was ready, I was a lot more secure in my ability to handle it. I’ve heard a lot of stories from my baby boomer parents growing up as well. Their lives weren’t as picturesque as these stories I see floating around online. People’s standards today are much higher from what I can see. My parents didn’t even have a shower in the first place they lived. And my dad’s “affordable degree” was from a city college no one had heard of, which got him laughed out of interviews. People thought he made it up.
And yes, that guy trying to give you $150 was either out of his mind or trying to pay you to go away.
For those co-workers who have boats, you likely don’t have the full picture of their finances.
Yeah yeah yeah, I get it. I mean, I promise it’s you who doesn’t have the full picture - I live in Alaska, there are no cheap boats up here, there are no cheap houses, there are no cheap hobbies, etc. - you don’t qualify for all of those things without the ability make at least the minimum payments. Nevertheless, you missed the point. I didn’t have the credit to get a single snow machine or motorcycle, let alone enough of them to also need a toy hauler to tote them around. There is a vast difference between struggling to make rent, and being able to acquire myriad recreational vehicles regardless of how “paper thin you may feel their outward appearing lives are”. And the difference in experience and skill was not that much. I had to teach those idiot x genrs how computers work and a few of them still today “don’t use email”. So I’m just not buying the “evaluation” argument. I know what they brought to the table, because I was the asshole fixing their sloppy ass work.
My god man, you are missing the point. You seem to only see my problems through the lens of your own life, which sounds like it has been mostly affordable. That’s my point. You have grown out of touch. Things are not affordable. I’m not talking about fucking jet skis. I’m talking about groceries and rent.
JFC, I had to live out of my occasionally running car for two years and I’m getting boomersplained about perspective. 🙄
Short-sighted behavior: People are incentivized to not stay.
The only thing that I have seen personally work is private companies doing a company stock program. You only share with the owners and other employees, thus you get a bigger piece of the pie. I have seen coworkers retire holding a $1,000,000 in shares (plus the same in their 4K)!
However, this was a large private company.
Definitely this - you can stay with a company and get a small raise yearly (maybe), or switch roles and advance quickly
It’s hard to know what will pay off in the end. Someone might get a few early raises and peak. I’ve been getting steady raises with 1 company for almost 18 years. I started out making about $17/hr, and now I make more than most. As someone who won’t lie on my resume or try and overstate my involvement in a project, I don’t think I would have done as well jumping around. We’ve hired some of these people who job hop and I hate it. They have no skin in the game, never learned any hard lessons from seeing how something they implemented worked out long-term, so most of their stuff sucks, as they always have one foot out the door, but they think their farts smell like roses. Sorry… I’m a very tied of a lot of bull shit around this issue.
I think it works really well for some people, but personally I feel like you
Yeah, I wonder if pay is competitive with the market and they are getting pay raises to stay competitive. I am making less than new hires with less experience only because I got hired years ago.
That’s something managers need to make right. I’ve been in that position and have worked with others in that position as well. Over time it worked itself out, but some people are impatient.
I’m also gen X, but the two year rule has been around my entire career, at least for tech jobs. In the first half of your career, in order to build experience and increase compensation, you need to change jobs frequently. Anything less than 2 years is a problem with stability, so change jobs every 2+ years. Anything more than you need to, and your pay lags your peers, and you likely are not gaining sufficient experience to advance your career
I had an interesting conversation with an interviewer about ten years ago - I’m in part of my career where I thought stability is desired, but they were concerned whether someone at the same place ten years could adjust. LoL. Apparently even in the latter half of your career, it’s important to switch jobs regularly
I’m also gen X, but the two year rule has been around my entire career, at least for tech jobs.
Same, and same.
I ended up making a lot more money in my career by moving around.
I’ve been at the same place for almost 18 years and have done alright. Things started out slow, but picked up eventually and I do pretty well now.
I’m not sure what will happen if I ever need to find a new job. I really hate the job search process and it sounds like it only got worse over time. I have my house paid for, so at this point I feel like I have a lot more freedom to do something else if I want, even if it would mean a pay cut.
Not just a path to advance, but a path that feels fair and is faster than changing jobs. A lot of places that do pay well still make it easier to go up a level as an external hire than they do for an internal promotion. In other words, it’s easier to get “promoted” by switching jobs.
Which is pretty weird. Companies would rather make the decision based off a few hours of interviews for someone who knows nothing about their company, over years of data for someone who knows the company well. I think it’s partly “grass is always greener” and also partly companies wanting to pay people less when they already employ them. They’ll pay more for external hires cause they want to get em, but once they’re there, there’s less reason to pay more.
I think it’s also the thought of, “we need new ideas, and if anyone here had them they would have done stuff by now.” They ignore the toxic culture that doesn’t allow the ideas from existing employees to come out or get traction.
I had an idea for something that was badly needed, but it wasn’t a small side project, it needed a dedicated team. I told my boss, I told his boss, and his boss. I met with multiple teams who the work would best fit with and explained what it was and why we needed it. Nothing. Then they hire some new VP, he says we need it (he doesn’t know I exist), and boom, there is a new team to work on it. I met with that team to explain what my thoughts were on it and the problems in the organization it needed to solve (this is something I had been very close to for a decade). I was completely ignored and dismissed. They made the thing, the roll out was a shit show, everyone hated it because they failed to solve the primary issue I was trying to tell them about. Now 2 years later it’s going to be shut down, because the new people didn’t know the issues, didn’t solve the right problems, and failed to listen to anyone else with actual experience in the organization.
I see this type of thing play out over and over and over again.
Or at the very least, lower level employees often don’t get to give big ideas. A big way to get your ideas listened to is to get promoted in the first place. Small ideas only do so much. Sometimes there’s big, systemic problems that need big ideas to fix.
My thing was a big systemic problem that costs the company a lot of money, but it’s hard to see. Those who don’t have to deal with it (everyone in management) don’t care, because it’s easy to ignore and the payoff is hard to qualify when they are looking for a pay on the back or their next promotion. But I think it would save us millions per year, and allow us to produce more, faster, which would also increase revenue. But, oh well. I’ve basically be told to sit down, shut up, and toe the line.
I think I’m suited to answer this. I manage multiple people, including Gen Z. I am also Gen Z. People are actively trying to work here.
One of the biggest factors is employee appreciation and respect. A lot of companies will half-ass that front through just giving their employees an occasional pizza party. The problem with that style of management, is that it removes the human aspect. It kind of just turns it into another thing to just “check off the list” for corporate. It’s something commonly thrown back at employees who complain. We’ve seen that happen enough to not want to deal with it.
It’s also important to focus on the little things. Small details are what make up the big picture. If you leave those out, the big picture will be incomplete. Congratulate them when they reach a new goal. Tell them when they do work that would make the company proud, within reason. Encourage them, and actually work alongside them sometimes. If you want to throw free food on top, maybe poll your staff for their opinions on restaurants/food trucks. Show them you care.
Regarding the human aspect, a happy employee stays, and a happy employee is also usually a productive employee. Get to know your staff a bit, casually. Try to give reasonable allowances for time off during stressful life situations, like when their home floods or their sibling dies. Most companies will only allow the legal minimum.
Don’t expect more from them than what you are willing to do yourself.
Accept their imperfections and work with them towards improvement. Instead of shouting, go straight towards the solution, and include them in the process. Allow them to learn how to avoid the mistake and learn how to fix it with you. Don’t baby step it, but maybe show them a cool trick for that process if you have one. Remember that they are human and that there was also a time where you didn’t know how to do it.
I’ll be frank with you. Many of us don’t see a great future over the horizon, so we’re kind of making the best with what we have. We want to enjoy as much of the time in-between as we can. We’ve seen our grandparents, parents, siblings, and other family members become burnt out and emotionally overwhelmed, and we don’t want that for ourselves.
The best way to not have that, is to not go along with it. So, hypothetically, I would go to the next job that treats it’s employees well, even if the wage is the same. Why would I waste my efforts and hard labor on someone who doesn’t value it? Why not spend it somewhere where I can learn, improve, and thrive?
Those all apply to any employee though regardless of generations. Gen z gonna look for another job after 2 years. Expect it.
I don’t disagree with that. For some reason, a lot of places think that Gen Z will put up with it like their parents and grandparents did. They treat them like crud, then they’re shocked when they leave.
Of course Gen Z might change jobs within 2 years. Most people don’t have their entire life plan figured out in their 20’s, which I think is fair. It’s even more understandable with the craziness of everything going on around the world.
First of all, let me say this - You are better than 99% of managers out there because you are asking yourself these questions. It means you are wise enough to acknowledge shortcomings and mature enough to seek help. So thank you. I wish more people had your worth ethic. You are probably a cool manager, and those are hard to come by these days.
Are you conducting exit interviews? I know it seems pointless, since they have likely already taken other jobs and it’s too late to try and entice them back with a deal, but it does provide some context as to why they are leaving the company. They’ve got a new gig lined up, so they don’t need to pull any punches. You will tend to get honest answers.
Stop trying to be their friend or do anything outside of office hours. 99.9% of people are not at the workplace out of free will because whatever it is you’re doing is what they want to spend the next 40 years of their lives doing exclusively.
As others have said, fight for more pay and benefits and fuck everything else. Which may not be easy in your position which I assume is middle management. Most of us footmen are very much aware of how you guys are essentially just used as the fall guys for all kinds of bad news from above, and that you have little leeway in making such decisions at your level.
###As others have said, fight for more pay and benefits and fuck everything else.
FTFY 😂 Honestly, I’m amazed how few people get this very basic concept.
Try paying them better. It really is that simple.
Everyone’s giving you long-winded answers, but this is the ultimate truth.
PAY MORE
I did. I fought with my CEO for two months and got everyone in the department except me a massive raise, 15%-20%.
Does “low engagement” mean “objectively not doing the job you are paying them to do”? Or does it mean “not going ‘above and beyond,’ aka not working unpaid overtime or doing things outside their job description”? Because only one of these warrants letting someone go.
In this case unfortunately it means “objectively not doing the job you are paying them to do.” Like, core job duties.
I’d conduct exit interviews and ask them truthfully. For me, there’s a decent amount of fucking around at our company- the same amount in person at the office as there is remotely. But regardless of location, our work always gets done, in decent quality and in a timely manner. (Gen Z/millenial + boomers)
No, you don’t know how to manage genZ (or any other cohort) because that’s not a fucking thing.
Start here:
Fight to pay them more. Period. This should be at the top of your daily to-do list. Your team is the reason you have a job, and they’re the reason your shareholders live such splendid lives. So, you want to keep your position(s) of benefit & security? Then never stop fighting for worker’s pay & benefit INCREASES. It is really hard to care about management, production (or shareholders 🙄) when you can’t take care of yourself or your family.
Curate a safe, work-focused environment that supports the life-cycle of a product that actually solves current, real-world problems like - global warming, profiteering, equality, etc.
Stop managing and learn how to lead.
Leaders:
Know how to say, “I don’t know.”
Show / do by example
Share knowledge
Support and foster knowledge sharing.
Shut their goddamn mouths and trust their teams to succeed (that’s why you hired them in the first place right?) and when the team/member falls short of PREVIOUSLY AGREED UPON goals you work together to address the extenuating circumstance(s).
Every company’s greatest asset and product is the verve, innovation, and vision of its employees. Squash, or worse, fail to invest in any of these aspects of your workforce and the human beings you’re trying to “manage” will “manage” themselves into better working conditions elsewhere.
You said everything people need to hear, but in a cruel and condescending voice to someone looking to fix the issue that we’re all pissed off about. Consider your presentation given the context, homie.
Is wasn’t even all correct, more angry than useful overall
hold leadership accountable, provide a clear path to advancement and pay them well
hold leadership accountable
You’re not wrong, but that can turn into a Game of Thrones scenario really quick like, if you’re not careful.
This post seems ridiculous to me. If you would like to know why your employees are unhappy then why would you ask random strangers on the internet why they are leaving your company? If your (or anyone’s) workplace culture discourages employees to air grievances then you aren’t entitled to know why they would like to switch companies. Most likely, I think that young people don’t wish to be percieved or talked about as whiny (or any other words you can use), in the event that they raise issues which management or colleagues view as unimportant or inconsequential for the company. I’m also curious as to how you know that your Millennial team members are happy, as opposed to working just because they need the money and don’t see better opportunities elsewhere.
I don’t think you got down far enough to the place where I explained I did ask them and got a bs answer. Or how I know my Millennials are happy with the job (mostly, there’s always something that could be better). And I did get them a lot more money last year, risking the wrath of every other member of senior management.
Talking down to anyone at my workplace is a huge no no. Our owner/CEO is a seriously old school Cypriot and takes his (mainly British inherited) civility very seriously.
In addition to the wealth of experiences and opinions in this thread, it is worth reminding:
2 is a really small sample size
Have you asked these unhappy employees? You’ll probably get a more helpful answer if it comes from somebody familiar with the specifics of your job / company. If you’re not doing exit interviews (or not setting a tone where they feel they can be honest in the exit interview), you’re doing yourself a disfavor.
