- cross-posted to:
- steamdeck@sopuli.xyz
- cross-posted to:
- steamdeck@sopuli.xyz
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The idea of a console where the manufacturer doesn’t have total control over the OS is ludicrous, no way a Windows box is ever going to “kill” the deck
Yeah, Sony lost me when they broke my Linux install and degraded the DVD playback functions, within six months of me buying my PS2. Similarly, the last “good” smartphone I had, was the Palm Treo (650p\680p\Centro); since then, I’ve never had a single phone that granted direct hardware access & allowed unloading/sideloading the OS by default.
Manufacturers want deep control these days; way beyond mere root permissions.
And Arch is right fucking there
And Holo ISO if you don’t want to fully configure.
The internet connection is my limiting factor. 15GB or on lunch/break. 😭
Portal is crisp and clean.
I heard Fallout 4 is good.
OOTP could run on an XP machine from 2003.
Fallout 4 is awesome.
I’m bored with it at the moment. Been playing Red Dead 2. Oh my god what a game. Makes me regret not playing the first one.
It’s been a couple months. I modded it to heck and always have issues with the Nuka World Quests.
I’m ready to go back now.
Yeah it’s been awhile, but that one where you have to find all of those circuit boards or whatever, god I hate that quest.
My main issue with fallout 4 is I can never beat it because I don’t want to betray anyone haha.
I thought I could make myself this time around. Nope.
On my Xbox I have like 15 days play time. It’s crazy.
Also funny how they keep adding shit no one needs that just makes battery life worse
Yes let me drop $700 on a handheld so I can play it plugged in on the couch
Remember Game Gear? Pepperidge farm remembers
The battery drainer? That thing was epi…
Sorry, ran out of batteries.
I knew people with NiMh batteries for their RC cars\planes\boats, but the first time I ever saw NiMh AAs, was in a GameGear.
Man that shit sucked. I only had one set so drive for 15 minutes then charge it till tomorrow
Yes! I had three NiCd to every one NiMH, & the NiCd would all be flat within minutes; then I’d switch to the NiMH for some actual fun & within 30 minutes they’re all spent for the day. Sometimes I stripped the single-use flat cells out of used Polaroid film packs, for just a few minutes of superior power:weight ratio on my littlest RCs
Then there were the flashlights we’d use for hours but if you put the same cells in the GameGear, dead in no time.
LiPo cells were like a revelation…
Come to think of it, the PSP had an optical drive which was a battery hog too; I remember a friend being elated that I’d found an aftermarket pack with more mAh.
Adding what exactly?
I think the rog ally had Microsoft word (maybe even just office) come with it.
Cool, so now it’s a “work laptop” and I can justify expensing it !!
Only reason why they’d put Word on it IMO
Oh yeah not very usefull there. But at least it can be uninstalled I guess…
According to the totally impartial LTT review of the Ally it’s worse than the Deck in every way but if it’s plugged in and you’re using a kb+m then it’s only a slightly underpowered laptop and you should totally buy it over the Deck
So I guess the “power modes” that can’t run on battery
What, are you saying this 7", 1600p, 120Hz display is a stupid choice for a handheld? How dare you!
Some people want that. I’ve never played my switch as a handheld. Not once.
Me neither. Maybe because I don’t own a switch, donno.
Fucking hell the “Steam Deck killers” is a stupid trend.
They really do hit you with all the specs that are supposed to put the deck to shame, but the reveal their ludicrous price, completely ignoring the major advance the things has.
That’s a simple trick, but cheap and dirty, so it’s pretty garbo anyway. No respect for handhelds themselves or anyone reviewing them or taking any sponsorship that do anything like that.
Wouldn’t it be rather simple to install Linux on them though?
You could, but what makes Steam Deck special is that it’s SteamOS is built specifically for that hardware, enabling functions you wouldn’t normally see in gaming PC hardware.
What functions are you referring to?
The main benefits of SteamOS proper is that it is a distro that takes a very “windows” like approach to papering over/obfuscating a lot of the internals. And the main feature it has over the competition is that, because Valve have so much control over the OS, the gamepad controls of desktop work a lot better.
But I want to say Aya also provide that, but in Windows? I know either they or GPD do that because that was a big reason I didn’t want to GET (probably) an aya neo: Not super huge on so much closed source software provided by a random company having that much control over my OS.
And… I am still not super huge on Valve having that much power. But I “trust” them more.
But curious if am missing something.
At least one of the main features is seamless suspend/resume. Not sure what the state of that is on Windows but I’ve seen a lot of people mention that SD feature specifically.
There’s also the global framerate limiter. Pretty sure that’s impossible to do on Windows.
The AMD driver can cap your game framerate globally, 90Hz instead of 144Hz saves a lot of power but is still much smoother than 60Hz
And with VRR in general it matters a lot less if you have a steady framerate. Pretty much my only complaint with the steam deck hardware is that it is not a VRR display.
And, back in the day, you could do weird stuff with telling windows that your monitor had a different refresh rate to do this but it was far from pretty and prone to strange behavior.
Small nitpick. I’m not sure why you don’t like the idea of the vendor having stuff installed on hardware they make, to ensure it functions optimally. Like, on a primary compute device, sure, be picky about the OS. But this is a game platform. Nobody gives a shit that Nintendo makes their own OS for their hardware, why does anyone care how the Steam Deck does it’s thing?
I actually have a lot of issues with the walled gardens the console makers sell. That doesn’t stop me from using it, but I should not need to wait for Sony to “add support” for basic HDMI standard features like VRR and question why the only tvs that support that are their own.
In a perfect world? Standard, preferably open source, libraries and tools for anything possible with “ease of use” and the like provided through the same package managers and management tools that allow IT departments to manage/monitor deployed systems. This greatly reduces the need to hope that Microsoft add discord support to the xbox or that nintendo… understands what an internet is. And it greatly reduces OS development/overhead for the consoles because… it isn’t like people are buying playstations for the… I can’t even think of anything unique to the OS that isn’t purely UI/UX.
The difference is that if the device comes with Steam OS, then it’s ready to go out of the box and you’re assured the hardware has good Linux support.
If it’s originally a Windows device then you may have to jump through additional hoops to get everything working. Also you’ll have to deal with allowing other OS’s in the BIOS if it’s locked.
Also you’ve paid Microsoft for a license you won’t use.
The flip side is that there’s work to make a native Steam OS build for 3rd party portable devices:
and
Imho, the Steam Deck will be the only one with a really long product lifetime. Simply because Valve’s main business is selling games, not consoles. The Deck makes people buy more/different games. Worked on me. I haven’t played much in the last decade because I was too tired to play at my PC after work. Now I can play everywhere. Couch, bed, car, … Basically every other manufacturer makes money exactly once by selling such a console. As soon as their marketing is done with it, they’ll release a new revision and you won’t see a single software update for the old model ever again.
Yup, there are a number of features for Valve to do this right:
supporting linux frees them of the eternal windows shackles that pc-gaming has become, diversifies steam as a multi-platform service (not just pc gaming juggernaut) without encroaching on anyone else’s terrain, and gets their user’s enormous libraries out into the world, potentially enabling new kinds of games in the future.
Well, but the same is true for brands selling desktops or laptops with windows, where they only make money once on the hardware (and maybe some additional money by installing subscription crapware like mc afee etc.).
That’s true. And that’s the reason why you’ll get one or two firmware/driver updates and that’s it. These companies have work to do on the other hand. A laptos or desktop is a widespread product. Valve had to go a long way to make the Deck happen.
Totally agree.
Not only they can’t sell the device at a loss, but also they have to use Windows for driver compatibility.
What’s holding back the Steam Deck, and the whole gaming on the go, it’s x86. For the rest, it’s x86 plus Windows plus drivers.
The one to win will be who makes a tightly coupled device that’s also efficient. Apple is good at that, but has nowhere near the catalogue than Steam and lacks a Steamworks SDK.
Intel meteor lake looks very appealing for next Gen consoles
I’ve heard that story a lot of times. Also, next gen consoles are going AMD unless Intel bows really down, which I haven’t seen in my lifetime.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen consoles use Intel in history.
Wasn’t the OG Xbox an Intel machine running some stripped down Windows install?
Yes it used a Pentium III clocked at 733Mhz iirc.
Where are the true killers with arm based chips? And how is the linux version of rosetta 2 doing? Can we run x86 games on arm Linux?
And how is the linux version of rosetta 2 doing?
What? You mean how is the linux version of mac version of qemu? Alive and kicking! Same for box86 and box64. Binary tralsators existed before Apple started making x86 computers.
Sorry, i was very late with this whole arm hype 😅 never knew that rasp pi was arm prior Apple silicone 🫣 But Indeed, it is very nice seeing that fast progress there and I hope linux arm goes mainstream and thus get even more supported by app developers and investors.
Don’t Apple’s chips have specific hardware support to make Rosetta 2 as effective as it is? I’ve been really hoping other manufacturers find a way to do something similar.
Yes they do, and you can bet that’ll go away as soon as Apple thinks x86 isn’t important (to them).
I don’t know about hardware support, but I found this article on box86.org which seems to be the best alternative to rosetta on Linux. The performance drop on box64 vs native is still much greater than the performance drop in rosetta:
https://box86.org/2022/03/box86-box64-vs-qemu-vs-fex-vs-rosetta2/
Edit: many infos about Rosetta under the hood: https://github.com/FFRI/ProjectChampollion
I found nothing, that implies that there would be specific hardware features in m1 for making the translation faster. Only that it does translation mainly ahead-of-time (AOT) and saves “that version” of the app somewhere as cache). I only scrolled through it and did not read it all, so maybe I missed it.
if I don’t own any steam games, are any of these other options better than the steam deck? or is steam deck still the way to go for non steam games?
They have better performance, so if you play plugged in or play a game that’s not great in Proton you might benefit.
For unplugged, nobody has yet beat the 5W performance of the Steam Deck
I mean it doesn’t have a disc drive and the base OS is Linux, so if the game you want to play doesn’t work on Linux it won’t work on the Linux version of Steam Deck, if that is what you’re asking. If you know how to make isos and move them over if the game requires, you can install windows on the steam deck and basically run anything that the steam deck can handle hardware wise whether its on steam or not. Ive seen people who installed windows on it or also kept the original Linux Steam OS play many non-steam games. Some of these other devices were built with Windows though from the ground up though if you don’t want to reinstall anything or deal with drivers, I personally plan on getting a Steam Deck here in a few months next Christmas then replacing Linux with Windows so i know for sure my software will work.
it doesn’t have a disc drive
False. Only the least expensive model has eMMC for the built-in storage. The other models have replaceable (upgradable) NVMe SSDs.
Lol, wooosh. A disc drive is an optical drive like a Blu-ray, DVD, or cd drive. Go ahead,show me the built in disc drive on a steam deck and not a USB connected one.
I haven’t bought a game on optical media since 2003, that being Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Likewise… I haven’t bought a game on optical media since the Wii.
Hm… I’ve never bought PC software on a disc…!?
And yet I have all these old Windows & Office & game discs… Man, hoarding tech is a weird habit.
Wait, do you guys still use optical disc drives on pc? What year is it? 2000?
Oh, I obviously interpreted that as meaning a hard disk drive (which SSDs are still commonly referred to as HDDs) since we were discussing modern PCs. Many years ago external physical file transfer mostly transitied away from using actual spinning disks to USB storage, and even that has been mostly supplanted by network connected storage for several years.
Man, I hear “disc drive” & I think “hard disc drive”. I’ve connected optical drives when USB boot wasn’t supported, but the last time I voluntarily used a disc drive was to test an M-Data disc burned to silicon. But yeah, none of these new devices have a HDD or optical (or floppy disk, for that matter).
Those are not discs.
I thought that valve even allowed other companies to use the steam deck software on their own hardware.
I’m pretty sure its just a linux distro anyone can use, maybe even open source.
Manufacturers will choose the sweet microsoft money tho they get per device with windows preinstalled.
Valve kind of pulled a George Foreman/nVidia and reused a lot of names to make things confusing.
SteamOS from the Steam Machines era is just another distro. I want to say that was a Debian?
SteamOS for the Steam Deck is Arch (?) and IS technically available and anyone can do whatever, but it is not really packaged for distribution and a lot of aspects of it are very specifically configured/set up for the Steam Deck.
I am not sure what the official line is on if another company wants to distribute (Arch) SteamOS with their device. But… unless GabeN himself is on a video twirling knives and talking about what a great partnership this is, I would consider that to be a negative. Because SteamOS for the Aya Neo Whatever is going to be a second class citizen, at best. And if the company thinks that is a viable option it does not bode well for their support and communication models.
I think GPD offers SteamOS copies for their devices.
That’s because normal Linux won’t be as optimised but unlike Valve they don’t want to put actual work into optimising it.
Less “not optimized”, & more “not supported”; IE, accelerations that don’t turn on, because companies like Intel, Broadcom, Samsung, & NVidia, have a long history of only giving preferred partner devteams, prerelease hardware access, much less any peeks at unobfuscated firmware.
Not so bad if you can just install another OS to 'em like they were just little mobile computers.
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It’s a gif, I had to tap on it before it played (on Jerboa)
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